How to Have a Threesome That Brings You Closer—Not Blows You Up

Most people talk about threesomes like they’re either a wild fantasy or a relationship wrecking ball. But here’s the truth—when done right, a threesome can deepen intimacy, build trust, and light your desire on fire.

In this episode of Talk Sex with Annette, I’m joined by Ally Iseman—ICF-certified relationship coach, kink-aware educator, and founder of Passport 2 Pleasure. Ally’s work has been featured in The New York Times, and she specializes in helping couples explore their desires without losing their connection in the process.

Together, we’re breaking down how to go from fantasy to follow-through—without the jealousy, awkwardness, or aftermath you’ve heard horror stories about.

We’ll cover:
 🔥 Why so many threesomes go sideways (and how to avoid it)
 💬 The conversations you must have before you ever invite a third
🛏 How to keep connection strong during the night itself
🚩 Red flags that tell you a couple might not be ready
✨ How to navigate the afterglow so the experience brings you closer—not farther apart

This isn’t just about adding a third person. It’s about leveling up intimacy, desire, and confidence in your relationship.

You can find out more about Ally Here:

KAVANOS: https://partiful.com/e/XqoMPXWkQl9mrnCJHJ4I

Passport 2 Pleasure: https://www.passport2pleasure.com/

My full demos are on my Only Fans waiting for you here: htt

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Chapters

• 1:29 New Show Name And Mission
• 2:22 Today’s Focus: A Couple’s Guide To Threesomes
• 3:39 Guest Intro: Coach Allie Eisman
• 6:09 From Fantasy To Follow-Through
• 6:56 Why Threesomes Appeal And Where They Fail
• 11:30 Find Your Big Why
• 16:24 Desires, Intentions, Boundaries
• 18:55 Where To Find A Third
• 25:15 The Unicorn Question And Etiquette
• 28:05 Handling Feelings And “Catching Feelings”
• 30:43 Jealousy: Data, Not Disaster
• 38:29 Anchor Behaviors And Pet Names
• 41:05 Setting The Scene And Venue
• 44:56 Alcohol, Nerves, And Consent
• 51:06 Consent As Sexy Invitation
• 56:09 Step-By-Step First Threesome Flow
• 1:02:24 Aftercare And Three-Part Debrief
• 1:04:56 The Three-Phase Playbook Recap
• 1:08:53 Resources And How To Reach Allie
• 1:11:53 Closing Toast And Sign-Off

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:45

Do the sex.

SPEAKER_00: 0:46

I'm Annette Benedetti, host of the podcast formerly known as Locker Room Talk and Shots. The show has a new name, Talk Sex with Annette. But at its core, this is still your locker room. It's where we strip away shame, get curious, and speak the unspoken about sex, kink, dating, pleasure, and desire. Around here, nothing's off limits. These are the kinds of conversations we save for our boldest group chats, our most trusted friends, and of course, the women's locker room. Think raw, honest, and sometimes unapologetically raunchy. If you've been here from the beginning, thank you. And if you're new, welcome to my podcast where desire meets disruption and pleasure becomes power. Now, let's talk about sex. Cheers. Today's Talk Sex with Anette Topic is a couple's guide to threesomes, how to plan it, do it, and keep your relationship intact. What if your biggest fantasy could actually bring you closer instead of blowing things up? Today we are diving into one of the most talked-about fantasies in relationships, the threesome. And not just how to plan one. We are going to talk about how to plan one and how to carry it out with confidence, communication, and connection. And I have the perfect guide for this conversation. My guest today is Allie Eisman, an ICF certified relationship coach, a kink aware educator, and an E ⁇ M consultant whose work has been featured in the New York Times. She's the founder of Passport to Pleasure, an inclusive relationship education platform and the creator of Kavanos, a global series of luxury erotic events designed to teach what real consent and chemistry look like. I'm very curious about that. Together, we are breaking down the exact steps for couples to move from fantasy to follow-through without jealousy, awkwardness, or shame or blowing up their relationship. But before we dive in, I want to remind you all that I'm over on OnlyFans. And there I'm sharing my sex and intimacy how-tos, demos, and audio guided self-pleasure meditations. I'm also offering some one-on-one sex and intimacy coaching. I'm giving you a taste, if you will. If you're not ready to dive in for the full meal deal, you can ask me one-off questions over there. I'm doing a lot of the same over on Substack. You can find me in both places with my handle at Talk Sex withinit. You can also scroll down to the notes below, and you're going to find links to everywhere you want to find me. I'm excited to see you there. But for now, Allie, I would love for you to take a moment to tell my listeners a little bit more about you.

SPEAKER_02: 3:39

Well, thank you so much. You did such a great job already. As you said, yes, certified relationship coach. I get to call the modern relationship excerpt because I don't coach or speak from the perspective of couples as the only model. I have an inclusive relationship design style that I work in. So whether you want to, you know, open up your relationship to other people or you just want to open up more authentically to each other, people come to me to work on opening up without breaking up. And that can look like exploring their first threesome. That can look like going to their first play party, which is a space I've been involved in personally and professionally since 2016. It's been quite an incredible journey for me, both getting certified as a relationship coach in this light and being, you know, an erotic event producer and liaison and consultant. It was a personal journey that fruited into a professional one. I started exploring in 2016. I tried opening up what became my last monogamous relationship. And wouldn't you know it, it blew up in my face because I've had none of the tools and skills needed to do so mindfully. So what I like to say is I've spent the last decade learning everything the hard way. So you don't have to. And those are the tools and skills that my website, Passport to Pleasure, provides, because we weren't given the tools and skills that we need to build the relationships that we want and deserve. And I want to make sure that everyone across the world has access to them.

SPEAKER_00: 5:05

So, listeners, I don't need to tell you why to stay to the end because I think even in relationships where you consider yourself monogamous, so many couples, even in that model, want to experience a threesome and figure out how does that fit into my monogamous model. And if you don't have the tools and you just go stumbling into it, trying to find a friend to shove between you, you're running the risk of really blowing up what you've worked so hard to build. By the end of this podcast, you are gonna have a full guide. I have done a how-to on planning before. We're still gonna touch on that, but this is really gonna fill out how to do this well. You've got two people here to guide you through it. And at the end, we'll give you the takeaways as I always do. I'm excited. Let's jump in, jump in because threesomes, as all of my listeners know, it's kind of like one of my favorite things to talk about. It's it might be my kink a little bit too. So let's let's get ready to talk about threesomes and really create, right? Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 6:12

Well, I actually I love to, you've touched on a few things right out the gate that are something I always like to stress in this conversation. That that go with the flow mentality, right? Like, oh, it'll just happen like organically, right? Going with the flow is a great way to drown. So there is a reason we get swimming lessons. It's okay to do some prep work and really understand why we're getting into this. And to your point as well, about you know, whether you're monogamous, polyamorous, somewhere in between, whatever stage of exploration you're at, the framework I coach from is if you're in a couple, you're already in a threesome. There's you, there's your partner, and there's the relationship. So understanding more about multi-partner dynamics, whether it's sexual, emotional, or both, will only support your relationship, whatever type of relationship you're in.

SPEAKER_00: 7:00

All right. I love that. I'm gonna touch on that. Cheers. Let's talk about threesomes. First of all, you said something important. You said there's a threesome, like because the relationship involves your relationship with yourself, the other person, you guys together. I always say that your most important lover, partner, your primary partner should always be yourself.

SPEAKER_02: 7:25

Well, you are your only life partner, actual life partner for life.

SPEAKER_00: 7:30

Absolutely true. And we never start focusing on that with focusing on that relationship. So that's really important. And I'm I'm so glad that you hit on that because going into any threesome, in my opinion, and I want your opinion more importantly, you gotta really know yourself and your relationship, what you can handle as well as what your relationship can handle. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02: 7:58

Absolutely. And I think it's also important to acknowledge when we talk about threesomes, it's so common that we're talking about a couple looking to bring a third person in. But a threesome is an experience for three people. It could be three friends, three single people. We also need to talk about the perspective of if it is a third person coming in to play and interact with a couple, what that experience is.

SPEAKER_00: 8:19

So couples listening to this, it's not just you. And that's going to be a point that we drill into down the road. But I am also curious about why do so many couples fantasize about threes, about threesomes, but so few are able to pull them off.

SPEAKER_02: 8:40

Well, think about it. That there's gosh, that is a we could spend the entire episode just talking about the psychology and the social economics around that. But we a conflate socially our emotional and our sexual experience. You know, love is sex, is commitment. Those are not actually synonyms. So there's a lot of guilt that can be associated with, you know, oh, I'm I'm wanting to explore someone else. That must mean because love is a zero-sum game, and therefore attraction is a zero-sum game that I must love my partner less or be less attracted to them, when that's actually biochemically not how it works, psychologically not how it works, but it's the story we're told, right? So there's so many layers of psychology that come through that as well. And then when you're in that, like in that shame spiral, let's say you still broach the topic, but you're still you're carrying all that story with you. It can feel a lot easier to just kind of run and jump. Okay, we talked about it. Let's just let's go and do it. Instead of actually sitting with the discomfort, what do we need to unpack here to really have a successful experience that's additive to our relationship? Make sure we're not avoiding something. Are we actually saying yes and to what we already have?

SPEAKER_00: 9:54

A lot of couples want this.

SPEAKER_02: 9:56

First of all, I need number one reporter fantasy.

SPEAKER_00: 10:00

Right. So it's helpful to know if your partner comes to you or you start having thoughts about it and you start to go into shame spiral, don't. Everybody wants it. But now in this process, let's say the couple has verbalized to each other. Oh, yeah, we're fantasizing about this. What comes next? What should they start thinking about next? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 10:23

Well, first and foremost, most likely, not necessarily, but most likely both of you won't be exactly equal, excited, the same amount, ready to go. That's actually okay. You don't have to be a full fuck yes, but no one can be a full fuck no. So step number one, step number one is why do you even want to do this? Cool, you want to have a threesome. Why? Without knowing that, because that whether you acknowledge it and understand it or not, that big why, I call it, is going to inform your entire experience. Don't you want to be an active participant in that? Don't you kind of want to understand what's fueling this desire, what you're hoping to get out of it, setting up expectations? You're going to want to figure out that why both individually and together again, because if you're in a couple, you're already in a threesome. What's the why for your relationship? Are you looking to deepen something in the relationship? Are you looking to explore something within yourself, fulfill a fantasy? What is that? Why? Where does that come from? It's not as like heavy lifting as you think. I actually have like a free tool that I created for folks to explore that. Whether you want to open up to explore consensual non-monogamy, or you're just looking to, again, go to play parties, or you're just looking to try a threesome. Understanding your big why is step number one. And we can share that link, I'm sure, in the show notes as well.

SPEAKER_00: 11:47

Yeah, because when you brought that up, the first thing I thought, I and look, guys, I know that I help y'all facilitate conversations, but when I'm in my own situation, I'm like, eek. If I were to bring that to a partner, I would, and they were to say, okay, why do you want to do this? I'd be like, I don't know. I think it's kind of sexy. I know that that's what I would do. I know that I would like clam up and I'd give some dumbass answer. And not that it's dumb ass, but it would feel dumb. Like, I feel like I should have a more as the person who does what I do, that it should be easier for me to answer. But so to have a tool to help you even think through like, why do I want to do this? Like, I have a partner I'm having great sex with. Why do I want to go and throw another person in it? Right. I am now, because I know I like threesomes, having those conversations before I even like get into relationships. I'm like, I like threesomes. So whoever I date, we need to eventually need to be able to talk about it, right?

SPEAKER_02: 13:26

Well, because whys aren't it created equally, right? And it's so easy to go, even if I understand my why, if I'm in partnership with somebody, it's easy for me to assume it's the same for them. You know, I might want to be just checking off a fantasy. It's something I've always thought about since I was a kid, whatever it was. You know, you want to have that experience and have that, you know, like just check that off the list. While your partner may be having like deep-seated unpacking of like bisexuality and questioning their identity and all this, and you could be having two totally different experiences. But if you don't talk about it, you're really setting yourselves up for really unnecessary conflict where you can lay the groundwork if you understand both of your whys and again create a why for the relationship as well. Then you're really laying that groundwork to have a lot more, quite frankly, fun. Like, and it again, it doesn't have to be this long, drawn out, you know, five conversations in, just put a little bit of thought in it. That's why, again, having like a free tool, like my big why, you know, my what the fuck do you want workbook? It just walks you through some really easy exercises to really unpack that and verbalize it in a really concise way. But I cannot tell you if you do nothing else on this, if you do nothing else, drilling down into that big why is really setting yourself up for a lot more success.

SPEAKER_00: 14:48

So you figured out your why. You had the toolbook, you guys worked through it, the awkward conversations. Now you're both clear on what the why is. Where do we go?

SPEAKER_02: 14:56

Let's talk about our dibs, our desires, intentions, and boundaries. This is really, really fun because this is this can help you build your yes, no, maybe list. What are some things we want to kind of experience during this? What are what kind of person are we looking for if we're a couple looking for a third person? Really having these conversations, think of it like foreplay. Think of it like the T's. You really get to go in a fantasy land here when you're building, you know, the scene, basically. So the yes, no, maybe list is pretty self-explanatory. What are the things I'm definitely down for? What are the things I'm like not so sure about? We can kind of use a red, red, yellow, green, you know, traffic light system in the scene to see if we're ready to go there. And what's definitely not on the table? That's super, super important. You don't want to be renegotiating the scene in the middle of it, but the maybes are a nice little piece of like, I'm willing to try it out, not guaranteeing it's gonna be a full green light, but let's let's try and see how it feels. Having your dibs, your desires, your intentions, and your boundaries really clear enables you to share that with the third person that you're inviting. Because fun fact, this is not actually just a walking sex toy. This is a whole ass human being who's gonna have their own big Y and their own dibs and their own things that they're looking to experience. So getting collaborative about it, making sure, again, you're really co-creating this experience is just that's the juicy stuff. These aren't chores. This is the foreplay. This is the flirtation. So if you've if we've gone, you've got your big why, you've talked about your dibs, you're ready to go, maybe you've put together that yes, no, maybe list. It's time to look for someone to meet.

SPEAKER_00: 16:45

Right, let's talk about that because that's a whole thing. So you're a big one. How do you suggest looking for that person? And most importantly, who should absolutely not be someone you go to to bring into a threesome scenario?

SPEAKER_02: 17:02

Let's bust my favorite myth, big myth. Let's just talk to our friend because we already know them, we have rapport, like super easy, right? So many versions of wrong. Not what you think. Sometimes, sometimes there's always an exception. Generally speaking, especially if this is your first threesome, don't go for a friend. Because so many, so many elements that a lot of couples want to feel safer about, like, oh, we're not gonna, we're not gonna develop feelings. No one can guarantee that. You are having physical experiences that create chemical reactions in the body known as emotions. It's perfectly normal to have feelings come up. So if you're playing with somebody who you already have an emotional relationship with, a close friend, it's only natural that those feelings may elevate. And then you're adding layers of unnecessary potential confusion. You know, this might be their first threesome, two. It's gonna impact the relationship. So, especially, especially when you're early on in this exploration, keep it outside of the friend circle. Keep it outside of your professional circle as well. No one at work, it needs to be involved in that part of your relationship right now. And it's it can also feel daunting to think like, so you're saying, go meet like a stranger and we're gonna bring them into the most like intimate part of our relationship. Yeah, you're dating. You're basically starting to date as a couple if you're looking to bring somebody into that intimate connection that you have. But I'm not saying go to the local coffee shop, pick somebody up at a bar, whatever, especially again when you're just starting, when this is your first or one of your first, look for apps that are specific to, you know, non-monogamy, kink, you know, people that are already looking for what could be considered non-mainstream, you know, sexual, emotional, relational experiences. You're going to find people who are actively looking to play with a couple. There's a term unicorn that you might hear. There's mixed feelings about the term. A lot of people don't like it because, again, it treats the that third person like an outsider, like this, you know, mythical, again, human walking sex toy that has no needs or, you know, feelings of their own. But some people actually really love being a unicorn and really identify with that, and they really are attracted to a couple that's known as symbiosexuality, the attraction to an already existing dynamic. So those unicorns are out there, but make sure that you're a unicorn couple as well, that you're the couple that is really ready to welcome them in, that is curious about what they want to do, what they want to experience, that you're adding to their experience just as much as they're adding to yours. So those apps are a great way, going to, you know, in-person events, munches, which are uh, you know, generally in the kink space are a non-play social. If you are going to play parties, say you've been going to play parties as a couple, you only play with each other, or you don't play at the event, that can be a place to meet people. I wouldn't necessarily start playing right away at a party. I would make a, you know, make a date. And then this is my major, major pro tip. If you have found someone that you're interested in that you're both interested in, setting up a pre-game chat. Get coffee, a non-sexual environment. The first in-person meeting is not going to be sexual. There's not going to be any play. You're just getting together in 3D, ideally. If it has to be a video call, it has to be a video call, but ideally in 3D in person. And you're really, it's a vibe check. How do we each feel around each other? What does it literally feel like to be in close proximity to each other? Does it feel good? Is it is it exciting? Do we want to flirt? Do we do we innately want to take this forward? And use that as an opportunity to really talk about everything that we've touched on. What are your dibs as a couple? What are their dibs? Where's the overlap? Where's the disconnect? Are you interested in the same things? Are you again, are you is the conversation flowing easily? Does everyone feel open? And sometimes in a couple, not both partners are going to feel attracted to or connected to a person in the same way. And that's really important to find out before you're all trying to take your clothes off.

SPEAKER_00: 22:29

Absolutely. How do you feel about hiring someone, finding an escort or something like that for a first time?

SPEAKER_02: 22:41

Yeah. Especially if you are really like just not wanting to worry about any emotional entanglements. This is really just to serve our fantasy as a couple or you know, our experience. I actually recommend working with a professional because they are professionally able to hold that boundary. It's really not fair to ask a civilian, if you will, to do that. Even if you've had the conversation. And I've worked with couples who, you know, we had the conversation, they said they were okay with it, and then down the line and da-da-da. Yes, because they're people too, and boundaries established by a professional dynamic create a space that is just not going to be there if you're not working with a professional.

SPEAKER_00: 23:27

Right. And that's as safe as you can get, right? If you don't want the emotional messiness. And again, one of the things you keep reiterating that I need people to hear is that you are bringing a whole person into your relationship and you don't know all of their stuff. You know, you're you're you're not going through the courting phase that you did with each other. And you have to allow for them to be on their own journey as well. And I have heard couples all of it, and I've been in relationships where someone's been like, well, can't we just find one who just someone who just wants to be a sex toy? And I'm like, yeah, no, first of all, I think that feels icky to me. Second of all, it never works out that way. Even if, and there are people who will say people who want that. Yeah, who else, and I don't think this is synonymous with being a unicorn, but there are people who are like, yeah, I think it's my kink to kind of be the sex toy that comes into a relationship. I'm saying you're still not counting on that person continuing to feel that way. But when you are working with a professional, there are like there's professional boundaries put upon it, right?

SPEAKER_02: 24:45

Exactly. And like, look, these are all dynamics. I don't want to get into right or wrong. Like couples privilege exists. There's nothing inherently, you're not wrong for having couples privilege. You just need to be aware of it. And for those who don't know, couples privilege, it just means you spent more time together, you guys have a rapport, you know, you know, maybe you may have your own language, you understand how to read each other. There's there's a shared experience there that isn't there for the other person. So having an understanding of that and being responsible for that is key. And so if the need is better served by a professional who will have those boundaries, then by all means, do so. And that actually brings up something too, an important part of the conversation with a potential third, is are they looking for something recurring or are they only interested in a one-night stand? Because again, not everyone wants to repeat, and not everyone wants a new person for each threesome. Some people want to recur, but that, you know, creates potential for blossoming relationship of whatever kind, which again is okay. We could do a whole section on like, you know, quote, not catching feelings. It is okay, dare I say, ideal to catch feelings. Feelings are a wonderful part of the process. Feelings do not, what's the word, do not like designate or differentiate that anything else about anyone else? It's just about that connection. Our actions are what delineate who we are, what kind of relationship we want to be in. So having feelings for another person is wonderful. Talk to your partner about it. What, if any, you know, agreements do you want to make around that? Do you want to continue exploring those feelings further or not? Do you want to create some boundaries? They're just data. So don't, you know, the the blame game or thinking this is a bad thing or something to avoid. Oh, that was the thing. You had said we're going to talk about how to avoid jealousy. I am not able to have that conversation because I don't think jealousy is something to be avoided. Honestly, it's coming, it's gonna come up like most likely.

SPEAKER_00: 26:53

I I do want to talk about, I think it's important that we talk about jealousy in a threesome and the concept of jealousy. There are so many people who look at jealousy as a bad thing. And it's interesting because I've started dating someone and we've I mean, up front we had conversations about jealousy and our take, our hot takes on jealousy. I'm curious how with what's your perspective on okay, you've chosen your pro you've gone you got on the apps or you hired someone. Now you're gonna embark. Let's say you've gone on uh they've taken your advice, they went out, they sat down, they had their coffee or their dinner, sparks happened, and also some jealousy was sparked. One partner like seemed to talk easier to the person, or maybe the third held eye contact with one person just has to hair longer, and you're like, Oh, what is that feeling? It's jealousy. Let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_02: 28:10

Absolutely. Number one, do not pretend it's not there. It will erode everything from the inside if you do that. It's there. Imagine saying to someone, oh gosh, you're sad. That's bad. Oh, you're experiencing joy, that's bad. Jealousy is just an emotion. It's just an emotion. It's data, it's information. So understanding jealousy, understanding what type of jealousy you're dealing with is key. I have a YouTube video about the four types of romantic jealousy. And then I also deep dive into retroactive jealousy, with this, which is its own bear, doesn't really come in here. But, you know, is this an insecurity within yourself? Are you in comparison or competition? Is there a fear of abandonment coming up, or is there a level of distrust in the relationship? What type of jealousy is being triggered right now? This is an opportunity to actually connect deeper with your partner. Are you creating your relationship as a safe space to be like, hey, I'm having some really uncomfortable feelings, not quite sure about yet, but I'd like to talk to you. I think I'm experiencing insecurity. I think I'm experiencing, you know, love, you know, we've had a history of not telling each other full truths. It's bringing up some distrust. I really want to talk about that. And making sure you're not responding to your partner with, you know, shame or blame. There's nothing wrong with them feeling that way. There's nothing wrong with talking about it. Pretending it's not there is really what's going to do the destruction. So that's why I like to say it's not about avoiding jealousy, especially when you're opening up or you're exploring threesomes. This is absolutely going to bring that up. And it's actually a wonderful way to work through it and use jealousy as a bid for connection and deeper intimacy. You can actually build more trust by talking about jealousy and having it as an active part of your relationship.

SPEAKER_00: 30:04

I love that. I feel like, like you said, it gives more information. For me, I think when I feel jealousy, I'm like, oh, it tells me how much I'm caring about the person I'm with. Like it tells me a little bit more about, like, oh, you know, when I don't have any jealousy, I'm kind of like, am I meh, am I meh in this situation? It like sparks feelings and curiosity. It also gives me information about myself. Like, yeah, I would send it. What do I feel that I'm lacking? What do I, or how am I comparing myself? Or what are the things that I need to work on in myself?

SPEAKER_02: 30:41

Yeah, I would definitely, I would encourage more examination because jealousy is absolutely not indicative of care. It has a lot more generally to do with our relationship with ourselves and what we may be bringing into the relationship or projecting into the relationship. There may be very real, like I said, if there's a history of you know, dishonesty or things like that, it may be a relationship element as well, but it's not indicative necessarily that you care about somebody because it can be ego-related. Oh, I need to know that like everyone I'm interacting with is all about me. And so if they're looking at something about kind of stuff, so it can, but it's not necessarily about that. Because yeah, that's what always has fascinated me about like sort of public discourse about jealousy. Somehow jealousy is a sign that you care, but simultaneously is a sign of an unhealthy relationship. So I'm like, which one is it?

SPEAKER_00: 31:33

Both. I mean, it's I think it's unhealthy when it's like, oh, I feel this thing, and now I've got to clamp down on this person, or I need them to feed more. I also jealousy kind of turns me on. I'm just gonna let's get into erotic jealousy.

SPEAKER_02: 31:49

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 31:50

I mean, so I can't, it does make me go, ooh, I'm kind of like into this person. I'm having this feeling, but then I'm also like, oh, you're gonna fuck this person I'm with, and then I get turned on and I want to watch it. That's a lot of information.

SPEAKER_02: 32:06

Yeah, and I resonate fully. So we're getting into we're getting into erotic conversion or erotic jealousy. Persian, if those for those of you who haven't heard the term before, it's basically like empathetic joy. It's you know, joy or pleasure from your partner experiencing joy or pleasure with someone else. And it doesn't have to be erotic. You don't have to get turned on by it. It just kind of feels good, but you can't get turned on by it. And then on the other side, there's jealousy, which does not feel very good. You can still get turned on by something that does not feel very good. I 100% experience erotic conversion and erotic jealousy. It's only in a deeply secure relationship that I can really play with that erotic jealousy in a in what feels like a safe and expansive way. Compersion is like, you know, I could all day long for my friends. Like if I'm like the more joy, the more joy. Like I love seeing people happy, people I care about, being with each other, love it. But when it's coming from a jealousy place and it doesn't feel very good, that for me, at least at this stage, requires a deep level of security and com and communication and connection with my partner or partners that are involved in that dynamic.

SPEAKER_00: 33:17

So I like the I like the cocktail of both of them together. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 33:28

Oh, it is, it is so, it is so yummy, and it's such a juicy place to be in. I I have really been able to dive into it in one of my current partnerships right now. It's just been something I've always wanted to really explore more. And oh, and I before I forget too, I just want to touch on when we were talking about sort of the, you know, jealousy as a marker of care, but also a marker of unhealthy. You you said it exactly right. It's the behavior around the jealousy, not the jealousy itself that is inherently healthy or unhealthy. What do you do with it or not do with it is really what tells that tale. So, you know, for me, God, when I, you know, much earlier in my journey, I had a jealousy derail uh couple swap, like very intensely. It's like like I did not know what was happening to me because my gateway into non-monogamy was conversion. I had never experienced jealousy before in what had up to that point been monogamous relationships. I always got really, for me, it was erotic conversion. I got really turned on by thinking about my partners, you know, being with somebody else or us being in a threesome or stuff like that was felt really yummy. And so I thought that's what jealousy was. And I was like, I don't understand, you know, why jealousy's got such a bad rap. It feels great. Like this is it's hot, like this is the best. And then I was in, was it my my first long-term ENM, like open relationship? And we had, we were, we had gone on a date with a couple, we were having a fun physical experience together, we had spot partners, we were all in the same room, and it was a specific moment I'll never forget. I looked over and she was doing something with him that I'm not physically capable of doing, and I know he really, really likes, and my whole body just shut down. It was like tunnel vision, sound left the room. Like I had never experienced this in my life. It was actually my first experience of jealousy, and I it and I I completely shut down and I shut down the date with it. I didn't know how to talk about it. I couldn't even look at my partner. I was, I was just, I had gone completely internalized. And that's what it can look like when you don't have the tools. And so it makes perfect sense. People want to avoid that. Feels terrible, can ruin an experience, could ruin a relationship. But it's not the jealousy that does that. It's not having the language around it, it's not understanding what it really is. I now know I was in comparison, I was feeling an insecurity. This is something I can talk to my partner about and give him the opportunity to show up for me, to comfort me, to reassure me. But instead, I put up this giant wall and it really impacted both of us.

SPEAKER_00: 37:25

Yeah. I I can recall a time I was in a threesome, and it was one of the few times I'm not into like I'm queer. So if there's gonna be another woman in the room and I have a male partner, I'm like, I want to be in on it, you know, and and so typically I have not preferred swap situations just because like I'm like the more the merrier, right? All together in a little pile. But this we did a swap, and jealousy was happening on different levels that wasn't being communicated about. He was jealous, just he, you know, he was just jealous, and then I was with a partner, and he used an endearing term that belonged to just yeah, that's a big with her just to jab me a little, and I wasn't in purpose. Well, I mean, in in post in post-mortem, oh when it was like you said this thing, and that like you know, he kind of admitted that, you know, that was that was the and it is an interesting experience because usually by the time I'm into group play, even if I get sparks of jealousy, I can eroticize it and be like, Oh yeah, all right, well, let's get wet with that one, and then deal with it later. But in that what it is really weird, you go like you go, it it is almost like everything kind of goes dark, and you just go inside and you get lost in that emotion. It is a clit shriveler. That's what I would call it. It's not getting me wet, it was definitely doing the opposite. And I was like, I need out of this situation, almost a panic.

SPEAKER_02: 39:06

Yeah, you know, um, yeah, I can absolutely feel like that.

SPEAKER_00: 39:09

So that also brings me to and and going back to that, negotiating ahead of time. What is a what you the yes nos know would be like, here are our terms for each other. Please don't use them with someone else during sex. For some people, it's at a DOM sub dynamic. It could be those words that you use. Maybe it's like you do not get to tell anyone else good girl, whatever it is. You get to say that ahead of time.

SPEAKER_02: 39:38

And I would also encourage, because what we're talking about is here's the things I don't want us to do or you to do or me to do, whatever. Really encourage the use of what I call anchor behaviors or anchor terms. So these are behaviors, signals, words, whatever that you guys share. This is a part of couple privilege that you have. And again, if you're aware of it, you acknowledge it, it's okay. That you let each other know, hey, I'm still here with you. Could be a, you know, specific wink, a specific word, term, something that you just kind of drop in throughout, especially if you're feeling disconnected from your partner or you're worried your partner might feel disconnected from you. It's it's the way of again reaffirming that connection rather than only focusing on what we don't want. Let's make sure we're spending just as much, if not more time, on what we do want. How do we want to feel? What makes you rem what makes you feel seen and heard and held by me? What makes you feel connected to me? And let's create an anchor behavior that we can carry into these experiences together.

SPEAKER_00: 40:41

I like that. I love that idea. Now I want to back up just a little bit because we hopped into bed when we talked about jealousy. But let's get out of bed and rewind. You've chosen your person. You had your first little bout of jealousy at the predate. You talked through it, you have your yesno maybes lined up. What's the best way to set the atmosphere for your first three some where? What does it look like? I'd love your advice on that.

SPEAKER_02: 41:08

So, first of all, heavy acknowledgement for using my nerd out on jealousy technique to really get through that jealousy and and use it for good. We'll include that link in the show notes. But yeah, the the ambiance, the mood, the tools, like what's going on. Now remember, you haven't just chosen them, they've also chosen you. Make sure they're engaged in this process. What toys do they like? Do they want to bring any favorites? Let them know what you have. Do they want to try any things that you have that they haven't tried before? And vice versa. As far as literally where, heavy, heavy recommendation, not your own bed if you live together as a couple. Unless you love emotional landmines, I would really keep it out of your home. I would recommend a neutral third-party, you know, hotel, boutique vibe, like something like a little Airbnb, something that really you're creating unique for this experience. That's so because you don't know what's going to happen. You can do all this prep work and all this planning and all this, you know, personal development, everything. And it's still three human beings engaging and things are going to happen and you don't know. So really creating a container that is separate from your day-to-day, especially for your first or your early experiences, is really key. So again, getting input from that other person, making sure they're included, you know, what is it convenient for everyone to get to? Or, you know, what elements are important do we want to make sure we have access to a shower before, during, and after? What kind of, you know, lubes? Does anyone have any allergies? That's a big one. To any specific, you know, prophylactics, lubes, things like that. Who's bringing what? If someone has a penis, are they responsible for bringing their own condoms? If you know someone has a vulva, are they bringing dental dams? What are the boundaries around that too? What are, again, the tools of the trade? What are the tools that you're going to be using and making sure it's available? I recommend, especially if you're going into like a hotel with something like that, if you have, you know, like a squirt blanket or something like that, that's really nice to be able to bring. Bring some familiar items as well, and items that you know and are used to playing with that make you feel secure, comfortable. I love bringing a little like treat for everyone, like a little shared snack for some aftercare that's very connective. So again, allergies, you know, food. Is anyone vegan? Does anyone have any other, you know, dietary restrictions or requirements? Things like that are really, really just nice touches to think about. Trying to think if I'm if I'm forgetting anything else. I have music, lighting. Oh my God, I have these friends. God, they're hot. The thought that they put into the ambiance, they bring their own programmable brand, the specific brand. I think there's multiple, but like they control the lights. They swap out all the light bulbs in the in the room or rooms that they're gonna be playing in. And they have like presets of like sunset vibe or like stuff like that. That is so sexy. A you know, well-placed red lace something over a lampshade also works, but like, you know, that level of attention to detail, like really have fun with it. Create an experience that is sensual, meaning that it's gonna engage all of your senses, and again, on neutral territory is the key.

SPEAKER_00: 44:35

I love that scent candles for for me, scent lighting music. Scent lighting music. Definitely sound, some sort of music, right? I love it. Here's a question. You brought up snacks. Did you hear my stomach growl over that? That was really bad. Alcohol. Let's talk about alcohol in these scenarios.

SPEAKER_02: 44:59

Okay, my my fantasy is like I prefer non-alcoholic, non-substance thing experiences to me that the connection elicits all of the things that I would get from that anyway. That being said, I recognize that alcohol can help soothe nerves for some people, etc. But with that, know that it is it is impairing cognition at any level, which impacts consent, which is something that I'm surprised we haven't talked about yet. But we should really dive into what that means. Because again, consent is foreplay. Don't think of it as this like chore. Consent is sexy as fuck. And I'll tell you what I mean. But any level of inebriation, you know, soothing the nerves, whatever, there are so many ways to soothe your nerves. Those anchor behaviors can really be beneficial. If you're someone who you know you get tense, you're not sure, you get those like first aid jitters, whatever it is. Work with your partner to find something you guys can create together. Is there a song that helps soothe you? Is you know, is there a T that helps something like that ideally to not utilize alcohol or other substances that affect your cognition? You don't you don't need it. I know it feels like you do, but I have a strong stance personally on that.

SPEAKER_00: 46:21

You don't I I love that I definitely had a period in my life where I was like, I'm having a drink every time before I have sex. Yeah, what's going on? And then I started raw dogging it, and I was like, oh, hello orgasms. You know, alcohol can it can kill the the pleasure your body can feel, but I also think, again, as you said, there comes a point where when I've been with people and I'm like, I don't think you can truly consent to intimacy right now. And I don't ever want to to take chances on that line where someone's like, We did what? Oh God, can you imagine? So let's I I didn't start with consent and may and and I I think sort of with our yes, no, maybe some things are built into it, but let's let really look at consent right now, right? Even though we're already the atmosphere, the atmosphere is set.

unknown: 47:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 47:21

Well, but really it's great.

SPEAKER_02: 47:23

Consent is a part of the whole process. So you don't just like talk about consent beforehand and then you're good. Like consent is a thread throughout the entire process, including the debrief afterwards. So it's not a one and done, it's an ongoing conversation, just like your relationship. It's not like you like label your relationship, like, oh, we're married, cool, we're done. Like, no, this is an ongoing conversation that you're having together for ideally the rest of your lives. And and consent is an incredible aphrodisiac if you really understand it for what it is. I like to use the example, like, you know, we think of consent like, okay, I want to do this thing. Can I do this thing? I want to kiss you, can I kiss you? Like it's a permission slip. It's not a permission slip, it's an invitation. Hey, I'd really love to kiss you. I'm just letting you know what I'm interested in. What are you interested in? That opens it up. So it's not this like, yes, no, I'm boxed into like satisfying your need or like shutting you down. You're you've just told me what you're interested in. Great. I have that information. Thank you. What do I need? Oh, wow. This is an open conversation. This is an invitation to share. And then you can take it to that next step. Don't just let me know you want to kiss me. How do you want to kiss me? Where do you want to kiss me? Now we're getting into informed consent. Now we're becoming storytellers in our sensual experience. I would love to gracefully just drag my lips across the edge of your neck down to your shoulder. What are you interested in? Like, this is a totally different level of communication. This is how we start employing consent as a part of the experience. And again, framing it as an invitation rather than a permission slip. Because if it's a permission slip, then yeah, everyone's like, I'm trying to get something from you. If I don't get it, I'm gonna be like frustrated and disappointed. The other person's like, oh God, I don't want to like disappoint you. And you're also big, big point here, you're shutting yourself off from possibility. If the question is, can I kiss you? Maybe they don't want to kiss you, but maybe they want to fuck you. Like you're missing out on a whole world of potential. So just letting the other person know what you're interested in, and then inviting them to share with you what they're interested in, that's a modern consent conversation.

SPEAKER_00: 49:42

And it's a great way to practice sex talk. I mean, like consent can be done in a sexy way, it can it can be totally sex talk. You gotta practice your voice. Even when you're asking and they're like, I'm not ready for that yet. It can be like, that's okay. Just so you know, if you ever are, feel free to make the move, right? I've definitely done that. Here's your open invitation. You're not ready for that, that's great. I'm like, if you ever are, let me know. And oftentimes leaving that little invitation out there, then you get really wonderful surprises when you show someone you're the kind of person they do want to do that thing with, right?

SPEAKER_02: 50:29

Well, I love what you said too, the not right now. Like we think it's like yes, no. It's like, well, not right now, but like, can we can we talk about it again in like 10 minutes? Like, let's make out a little bit and then let's see. Yes, again.

SPEAKER_00: 50:41

That happens a lot, right? That it happens a lot, but you also have to be okay with hard no's. Like you just gotta get okay with it. I'm like, it's not I I have gotten to the point where it rarely do I take things a no personally. If I'm like, I would like to stick my finger up your ass at some point, and they're like, that's not gonna happen. I'm like, cool. Like, I don't get all feelings about it.

SPEAKER_02: 51:07

No, exactly because if you're making it about you, right? You're missing like the whole point. Again, if it's an invitation, you're saying, Hey, can you give me the information I need to know how to please you? And if they're like, oh, hey, not that thing, fantastic. And like, thank you so very much for taking care of yourself and enabling me to support you in that. Because the last thing I would ever want to do is do something with someone that they didn't want to do or weren't sure about, or questions later. Like, that is like one of my biggest no, thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 51:40

Like, no one wants to have their finger up your ass and suddenly realize you don't want to. That's not a position. No, that's not on my yes list. It's like it's that's just terrible. But so yeah, this is an ongoing conversation. But we've set the stage, we're in the bedroom. Let's this is the heart of our conversation. Take us through, take us through what needs to happen to have it be successful, some key things from hello to goodbye. Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 52:16

Well, you've set the mood, right? You've got the lights, the music, and all the environmental components are there. Everyone knows where the bathroom is. Everyone knows, you know, what barriers you're using, etc. Ideally, you want to start with progression. It's not, we're not jumping, we're not shooting a porn. This is not a performance. This is about presence. I really love breath. I think breath is such a beautiful and underutilized sensual tool. Really, even before touch, like just sit, maybe sit on the bed or the couch or you know, what whatever the central piece is for you. Just breathe together for a minute. Practice looking at each other, really holding eye contact. You're actually synchronizing your nervous systems when you do this, because at least one of you is probably nervous. So when you do this, you're actually helping that person or those people regulate. You're what's you're doing, what's called co-regulation. You're using your breath, try and synchronize the breath if you can, breathing in, out, get into a shared rhythm. And then you can take that into some light touch. Maybe it's just, you know, a hand massage, a shoulder massage, just really getting your physicality used to each other. And something to really pay attention to, especially if you're a couple, you're used to a one-on-one dynamic. It's really, really easy. Do not beat yourself up, do not beat your partner up with if this happens, it probably will, at least for a moment. It's really easy to slip into another one-on-one dynamic with a new person or with your partner. And the goal here is to make sure no one's feeling left out, unless there's been a, hey, I really would like to just take a breather and watch. Beautiful. We love that. Here for it. Unless that's really been requested or invited, we want to make sure everyone's really connected. So utilizing touch, eye contact, those anchor behaviors we talked about. So whoever you're playing with, you're making sure that you're connected to the other person who may not be physically involved in that moment. It can be, you know, an arm playing with their hair if you're more physically involved with another person. There's all these different ways to make sure you're still connected. And again, those anchor behaviors can help if you know you notice your partner maybe getting stuck in a one-on-one dynamic. It's like, hey, sweet pea, you know, Cheetos or whatever it is. Oh, whatever the word. I'm here too. You know, that kind of thing as a loving invitation, not as a jab. You know, we don't want to be using a pet name, for example, as a resentful way of trying to make our partner uncomfortable. It's okay if we slip up a little bit here and there in the moment, especially if this is your first. Mistakes are welcome. This is how you learn. So make sure you have some behaviors to support it. But yeah, you've you've synchronized your breath. You're creating some nice light touch. Maybe you want to get a little playful with, you know, how we're going to take our clothes off. Maybe no one's allowed to take their own clothes off. Each person has to take somebody else's piece of clothing off. It's called play. Make it playful. This isn't so serious. You're not shooting a performance. You're present with each other. Have fun. How can you gamify kind of every stage and also alleviate the pressure as well of like, you know, maybe you've had an idea of what this is supposed to look like, or you're really attached to like some version of an outcome. Do your best to release that and really pay attention to the other people you're playing with, really, really connecting with them. Just because you've, you know, we can think the term relationship escalator, you know, referring to kind of like how we date, we move in, we get married, da-da-da. There's also a sexual escalator. Well, we've kissed and now our clothes are off, and I've, you know, we've gone to what is it, like uh second base and third base and all that stuff. That's not really fun. You've you've had intercourse, that doesn't mean you can't, you know, have digital sex. That doesn't mean you can't just be making out for a little while. Like allow it to take shape. There's not a destination, there's not a pass fail, there's an experience. This is a playful scene that you're engaging with. And that's why I love the use of red, yellow, green as a tool in the scene. Green means we're all good because check-ins are important. Again, like like we said, consent is this ongoing thing. Check-ins are how we keep consent alive within the experience. And it doesn't mean pause, how's everyone doing? Circle up. Like, that's not what I'm talking about. It's not a mood killer. It's just a nice, well-placed. Like, does that feel good? Is this okay? Would you like me to keep doing that? How are you feeling? Just really nice again, like you said, practice your voice, like nice light. And the person can be like, Oh, yeah, green light, we're we're full on. Can be, you know, yellow. Let's just like kind of ease off for a little minute. Doesn't mean like stop. Like, let's keep making out, but maybe we don't progress anywhere. We don't get, you know, faster or more. We're just kind of chilling in this space right now. Or it can be red. You know what? Actually, I need a minute. I need a minute. It may just be me. I'm gonna take a minute. You guys keep going, or it may like, can we just pause and kind of like circle up with our breathing again? And just like I'm feeling a little disconnected. Can we all come together again? Use those tools because again, it's not this, you know, step, step, step. All of these tools are applicable at any point during the scene.

SPEAKER_00: 57:44

There you go, guys. That's great advice. And I, you know, keep it simple. Play. I'm sure you have a threesome. You're like, I want to see this position and this position and this person doing this, and this person. Like the first time, it's really just kind of getting to know each other. And then afterwards, if if you've decided you're going to do it again and again, you can start knocking off your bucket list, right? Yeah. As a group talking about, like, yeah, I want this experience. Are you guys into it?

SPEAKER_02: 58:15

But this is the first yoga class is breathing. You're not doing a headstand.

SPEAKER_00: 58:19

Like, right. Exactly. Exactly. All right. And so now you're done. You've all had fun. I love to do a highs and lows, like, not you know, I love to be like, what was the thing that you really enjoyed best about that? And then everybody gets like a moment to talk about it. And then it's like, what was strange for you, or what felt awkward that we could do differently next time?

SPEAKER_02: 58:44

Yeah. And then there's two stages to this, right? So I hundred percent I love a like an aftercare debrief. Doesn't mean you have to like jump right into it, like, okay, like everyone feels complete. Like, let's talk about it. Like, you know, again, we brought snacks, like, let's, you know, we want to massage, whatever it is. We're chilling, get some make sure everyone's drinking water. Big key key key component, lots, lots and lots of water. And that debrief, yes, when all three of you are still together. So, so wonderful. That's phase one of the debrief. If you're a couple, you're still gonna want to do a debrief just the two of you afterwards. And then stage three of the three-part process, because again, everything's better in threes. You're gonna want to circle back, communicate to the the third person, like, hey, is it okay if we check in with you in like a week? Does that feel good? Or, you know, this weekend or whatever it is. Make sure they're cool with that. So you do your debrief as a couple after you've done the three-person debrief, and then you talk to that third person. Hey, is there anything that maybe came up for you afterwards or we want to share us? Would you like to see us again? We'd love to see you again, stuff like that will be really nice after there's a little bit of space, if it's a couple and a third person.

SPEAKER_00: 59:52

I love that. And then everything feels good. It feels like, okay, everyone's done their check in. Even if you're not going to see each other again, you know that you haven't left someone walking around out there carrying some baggage, right? So if you run into them or whatever, everything's everything's cool. And that is such a respectful way to go about doing your first threesome. I feel like we've done a good job covering this topic.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:18

Heck yeah. It's gonna be so much more fulfilling than if you're just gonna try and go with the flow and magic happens, and like maybe, but most likely you're gonna be chasing the dragon. This is the dragon, it has three steps preparation, scene, and post wrap-up aftercare. Super important.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:37

Well, we are at that point now. For my listeners who have now listened, you're like ferociously taking notes. Can you give them their takeaways for this episode? They're getting, they're gonna listen, they're gonna go to their partner, maybe share this with their partner. What are some things they can start doing right now to make those beginning steps towards their dream threesome?

unknown: 1:01:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:04

So remember, everything's better in threes. So this is that three-part process, phase one. You're gonna go to the link in the show notes and so get that free tool that I've got to help you understand your big why. Step number one, big why. If you do nothing else, understand that for yourself and for your relationship. And you're gonna explore your divs, your desires, your intentions, and your boundaries. Maybe you create a yes, no, maybe list. And then you're ready to start kind of exploring places to meet this elusive third. Are you looking for a unicorn? Are you looking for somebody you might want to see more consistently? Go on those apps that are specifically for, you know, non-monogamous folks, kinksters, that sort of a thing. Go to in-person events like munches, workshops, that sort of a thing. Really look for people outside of your immediate network, both personally and professionally. You're not gonna do this with a close friend, you're not gonna do this with a colleague. Once you have that person, you're gonna meet them before the big day or the big night. You're gonna have ideally an in-person or at least a video call, get together. That's a vibe check. Vibe check to make sure everyone's feeling good, everyone's attracted to everyone, everyone's on board, no one's bumping up against anything or feels uncomfortable or unsafe in any way. And you're gonna prepare then for that, the big event, if everyone's on the same page. You're gonna talk about the dibs that this third person has, what's on their yes, no, maybe list. And then you're gonna create your, you know, your ambiance shopping list, if you will. You know, where is this gonna be? Not on home turf, not at their place, not at your place, neutral third party, Airbnb, rental, hotel, something like that, depending on what you're into, dungeon. It really depends. But neutral third-party grounds. You're gonna decide who's bringing what, what are the important ambiance points, you know, lighting, music, snacks, toys, contraception. Are you on the same page about potential broken condoms, etc., etc.? You're gonna ideally, I can't believe we didn't say this, but you're gonna ideally exchange your recent STI results and make sure everyone's on the same page about that and have. Have an exposure plan in place. Now you're at the venue that you've chosen. Everyone's brought the things they agreed to bring. You're going to settle into the space, low stakes. You're going to circle up, sit down together. You're going to engage your nervous systems together. You're going to co-regulate with your breath. You're going to start with that, making sure everyone kind of comes onto the same playing field to start. And it is a playing field. You're going to take the pressure off. You're going to play, gamify every step, if you will, every experience. How can this be fun? How can this be playful? This is not a performance. So maybe again, we take each other's clothes off. No one gets to take off their own clothes. No one can take off the same piece from another person that they took off from somebody else. Whatever it is, make it fun. And you're going to use check-in points. Maybe you have anchor behaviors that you've talked about with your partner to make sure you're still connected. You use a red, yellow, green traffic light system to do, you know, check-ins throughout. You do nice little, like, hey, how is this? May I still go? May I keep going? Do you want me to do anything different? Nice little check-ins throughout that don't stop the action, but then just keep things really connective. And then you're into aftercare. Everyone should feel complete. It's not like, great, my partner and I are done. Godspeed. Everyone needs to feel complete. That doesn't necessarily mean orgasm. It can, but everyone feels complete with the experience. Now you're enjoying some aftercare. You're cuddling. Maybe there's some snacks. There's lots of water throughout. Everyone's drinking water. It's great. And you're talking about the highs and lows. What worked for you? What would you have liked to do differently? What were what's the highlight real? Can we like to check in with you? Are you comfortable if we follow up with you this weekend, next week, whatever it is? Then you and your partner, after that three-person debrief, have a two-person debrief. Just the two of you. What worked, what didn't. Ideally, this is not, there's not too much time between the two, but a little distance, a little space, so you have some time to kind of marinate on your own. Then you have that two-person debrief. And then you check in with that third person for the third part of the debrief. You know, hey, we'd love to know how you're going. Is that did anything else come up since we spoke? We'd love to see you again. Would you, et cetera? That sort of a thing. And that's also something you're going to talk about with your partner. Is this something you guys want to do again? Whether with this person or another person, or not? That's okay. But that's the three-step process. The prep, the event, and the aftercare.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:03

There you go, guys. You got it. That that is a perfect guide. I expect you all to go out and have good threesomes now. Exactly. Successful threesomes. Don't go in with the flow. No, that's a great way to drown. It's a great way to drown. Thank you so much for that. I feel like that was just sort of the best guide we could possibly give in this single in a single episode because there are so many sub-topics. Can you do me a favor and tell my listeners? Do my listeners a favor and tell them all the places they can find you at. I, of course, will be sending out your guide, but I'm confident they're going to want to seek you out and find out more about what you have to offer.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:45

Absolutely. Well, I'm Ali Eisman on Instagram, and I'm PassportToPleasure. That's the number two PassportToPleasure on all the platforms and dot com. So Substack, Instagram, TikTok will be coming back shortly at a little pause there. Yeah, Substack and Instagram are my two main platforms. PassportToPleasure.com is where you can find all of my resources as well, and YouTube as well. I do a lot of very comprehensive content on YouTube as well.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:14

Perfect. You're gonna want to check her out. I'm really interested in your content on jealousy. I'm gonna be running over there to check it out. So you guys should too. Listeners, I mean, I feel good about this. I hope you do too. I think this was a great conversation. I am curious about what your experience are going to be after this. If you have thoughts on what we just talked about, if you have your own experiences you want to share, make sure that you drop them in the comment below the video. If you're on my YouTube channel at TalkSexwithAnet. If you are an audio listener, you can of course go over to YouTube and drop your comment. You can email me at Annette at talkswithanette.com and I will do my best to get back to you. And all of y'all can go down to the notes section of this episode. There's a speak pipe voice link. You can send me a voicemail if that's easier for you as well. Thank you so much for joining me today, Allie. This was a great conversation. Absolutely, my pleasure.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:16

And remember, if you're in a couple, you're already in a threesome.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:20

Already in a threesome. I agree. So you're looking for a foursome. Until next time, listeners, I'll see you in the locker room. Cheers.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:29

Cheers. Ringloop.