Talk Sex with Annette
Talk Sex with Annette
Where desire meets disruption—and pleasure becomes power.
Hosted by sex and intimacy coach Annette Benedetti, Talk Sex with Annette is the go-to podcast for bold, unfiltered conversations at the intersection of sexuality, identity, and empowerment.
From kink to connection, self-love to sexual healing, Annette dives into the topics most people are too afraid to touch—with expert guests, raw storytelling, and a feminist lens that challenges shame and reclaims pleasure.
Think smart, sexy, and radically real: this is the cultural conversation around sex that’s long overdue.
Talk Sex with Annette
Arousal Gap: Why She's Not Turned On—And How to Fix It
Ever wonder why she’s not as turned on—or as fast—as you are?
You're not alone. And she's not broken.
In this episode, I’m joined by sociologist, intimacy coach, and TEDx speaker Dr. Jenn Gunsaullus to unpack one of the most misunderstood issues in sex and relationships: the arousal gap.
We’ll break down:
✅ Why men often feel ready in seconds—and women don’t
✅ What’s really going on when she “seems like she’s not into it”
✅ The difference between spontaneous and responsive desire
✅ How mental load, emotional safety, and shame kill arousal
✅ What you can do to actually close the gap—in bed and beyond
Whether you’re a man trying to better understand your partner, or a woman wondering “what happened to my libido?”—this episode is for you.
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Cheers!
Do the sex pleasure and desire Around here. Nothing's off limits. These are the kinds of conversations we save for our boldest group chats, our most trusted friends and, of course, the women's locker room. Think raw, honest and sometimes unapologetically raunchy. If you've been here from the beginning, thank you, and if you're new, welcome to my podcast. Where desire meets disruption and pleasure becomes power. Now let's talk about sex Cheers.
Speaker 1:Today's Talk Sex with Annette. Topic is the arousal gap why she's not turned on and how to fix it. Let's talk about that moment You're naked, maybe making out he's hard, about that moment You're naked, maybe making out he's hard in 30 seconds and you you're still thinking about the laundry or that annoying thing he said three hours. That just hit wrong. Or maybe your body just hasn't caught up yet. This is what we call the arousal gap, and if you've ever felt broken because you couldn't get there fast enough, this episode is your reminder that you're not the problem.
Speaker 1:Joining me today is the brilliant Dr Jen Gonzalez, a sociologist, intimacy coach, tedx speaker and host of Dr Jen's Den. She's here to break down the science, the psychology and the cultural bullshit that keeps women disconnected from their own desire. So, whether you're the partner wondering why isn't she into it? Or the woman thinking what happened to my libido. This episode is for you, but before we dive in, I want to remind you I'm over on OnlyFans and there I am sharing my sex and intimacy how-tos, demonstrations and audio guided self-pleasure meditations and so much more to help you start having better sex and intimacy starting tonight. You can find me there and also over on Substack doing much of the same under the handle at TalkSexWithAnEye. You can also scroll down and you're going to find all of the links to anywhere you want to find me below in the description of this episode. And now I want to hand the mic over to Dr Jen Jen. Can you tell my listeners more about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, just in a nutshell. The doctor part of it, like you said, is I'm a sociologist. I have my PhD in sociology specializing in intimacy and sex and sexual health and relationships and communication, and over the years, you know, my biggest passion has been around reducing shame and relationships and communication. And over the years, you know, my biggest passion has been around reducing shame and stigma and misinformation, which there is so much around still, which is stunning to say in 2025. So I've been doing this for 32 years and increasing connection and self-love and vulnerability and, you know, meaningful and effective communication. So I do that through. I have a private practice relationship and intimacy coaching. I travel around the world, public speaking to groups and couples and retreats, writing video work, et cetera. So cause there can never be enough of these conversations out there.
Speaker 1:There can't. And the more of us, the better. And the more of us saying the same things, the better.
Speaker 1:So that some of you will start believing us, god damn it. So I'm excited about this conversation and folks, you know why you need to stay to the end, because I am confident that the vast majority of you listening to me have encountered this situation where, in particular and this is for all folks, I'm not just talking about heterosexual couples here. You guys know I'm queer. I have been in, I've been on the side of not being able to get excited soon enough. I've been with partners who identify as women, who have had a struggle getting that.
Speaker 1:Y'all know I've got a hefty sexual appetite, so we've all kind of run into this issue. But there is, in particular in heterosexual relationships between men and women a more extreme gap, especially at the younger ages. So we're going to help you navigate that, understand it, so it's not personalized and feels like an insult to one of you. And we're going to give you a go pack, as always, by the end of this podcast so that when you want to get it on tonight you're going to get closer to maybe closing the arousal gap and getting her off.
Speaker 2:I'm in Cheers.
Speaker 1:I got my Wonder Woman mug right. So, dr Jen, what is the arousal gap and why is it such a universal? It's a universal experience. Right In my intro I was like I'm pretty sure everyone listening to this has experienced this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the main thing is, I mean, I think still and I can mainly speak to American society, but this seems to be across the board our standard of quote unquote, normal or what things should be in a sexual encounter still is the male standard in many ways, and and then therefore anything that's different than that then seems wrong or broken, which is not the case, because that would be. Majority of women's bodies are quote unquote, wrong or broken in some way. And the main aspect of the arousal gap is that men in general can quickly get aroused in that they are getting blood flow to their genitals and they're having an erection just a more straightforward path. And there is a particularly direct path for men around that. And not that men don't struggle with erections at all ages and for various reasons. However, at least in general, and that can be quite fast. And then men know they're aroused also because they've got like. They can feel it, they can see it, versus women's bodies can.
Speaker 2:It's not unusual for it to take up to 20 minutes to get enough blood flow to the genitals that things start to feel good, that you get, you know, because the blood flow and then the vaginal lubrication, all of that makes things feel good versus feeling like too much friction or too rough or the blood flow create the plumpness too, like if you've ever.
Speaker 2:You look at your own vulva before arousal and then, like 20 minutes into arousal, you're like, oh, that is like a blossoming flower down there. It is blooming, it's such. It changes colors, it becomes a deeper color and all of that in general takes more time. For women. It depends on your age, how hydrated you are, where you, how long you know if you're with somebody new or if you're in a long term relationship, how safe you feel could be perimenopause, menopausal so many different factors. But in general it takes longer and as women we can't see it per se Like when we're just like moving about our day or even in bed, like you really need to be looking down and paying attention, and most of us aren't doing that. So there's a time that it takes for that blood flow and that vaginal lubrication, and there can be a disconnect between even realizing that our body is turned on some.
Speaker 1:What do you think that disconnect is between the brain and the body for women, who maybe their bodies are starting to respond, but their brain doesn't register it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, some of it is. I mean because it is. It's so subtle, like if we're getting, you know, experiencing vaginal lubrication. We can't necessarily feel that unless we've practiced really a depth of mindfulness, body awareness, to be able to even feel those little shifts. So there's a, there's a disconnect and I only say disconnect, at least compared to men who have a very blatant, you know, sign of arousal. So in that case. But I also think and this is where desire comes in, and often desire and arousal are put into the same bucket, but they're very different systems and in general arousal is easier to understand, some because it's more physiological desire.
Speaker 2:We still don't understand all that well, but that's not like yearning, that, yearning for sexual connection or sexual release or to experience something that feels erotic, versus again that like physiological blood flow. So, but I think that's a piece. We can get that physiological blood flow, maybe something is. We're watching some pornography or something that is creating a physiological response in us at a, at a very sort of base animal level, but our brain isn't turned on, our emotions aren't turned on, we're not. So there can be a disconnect in that way. If we don't maybe like what we're seeing or it, it upsets us in some way, or we're with somebody and even if we're starting to make out some and, and you know, maybe our bodies and they're touching us and our bodies turning on, but like in our head, we're just still distracted. So I just there's many components of it psychological, emotional, emotional, physiological and a complex interplay between them.
Speaker 1:Right. Do you think women experience that arousal and the connection between the brain, the body, the emotional piece as a more complex experience than men? Complex?
Speaker 2:experience than men. If I had to say yes or no in a generalization, I would say yes, that there is an experience of more complexity. However, again, you know, everything's there's so much in the broad range of normal and what's natural, but at least statistically I would say yes, I do think there's a distinct difference. And then again, which is why then I mean, you know, I've been in this field for so long the number of women of all ages that I've talked to and worked with individually or in groups, who think that they are broken in some way, that there's something wrong with them. You know, I published a book, like six years ago, and that was one of my main points. Like hey, no, here's all the research. Like you are absolutely normal, like you are not broken, like this is how our bodies work differently, and then this is the bullshit you know we inherited from society.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think it's a combination of factors, but there does seem to be a greater complexity about that societal piece, how shame plays into our lack of ability to become aroused quickly, and also sort of the messaging we were given about our arousal and pleasure. From a very young age I remember being told, as soon as sort of sex ed started, that it was very normal for some women to never have an orgasm, that that was the norm. And it was even more normal that while I might experience external pleasure, it was very normal to never, ever experience internal pleasure, normal to never, ever experience internal pleasure. And so for me I was like, because I didn't experience any pleasure at first, except for when I was alone, I was like, oh okay, so I'm just going to be one of the women who don't experience this kind of pleasure.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, that's so interesting because so often I feel like the messaging goes in the opposite way, that you're like, if you're not experiencing orgasm or pleasure, like there's something wrong with you and you got the opposite, Like hey, no, you might not and that's normal, but then that also set up, you know, a problematic expectation and then for yourself, I guess then not even realizing that it could be different for you and maybe should be different quote, unquote for you. Is that what was your journey?
Speaker 1:I well. I was frustrated because I also had a very high sexual appetite from a very young age.
Speaker 1:And so it was like why can I do this with myself and not with a partner? I think there was also a feeling of, oh, I'm one of the broken women who can't orgasm, and that's just like when I'm with somebody and that's just how it is Right. And so good sex for me became something else, and what it became was sort of a scorecard of, oh, I can make him come the fastest, or I like it was performative and it was almost like a collection of I'm good in bed because I can please this man so much, even though I'm not pleased by it.
Speaker 1:And and then you know, entertaining myself in my head while I was performing, because, because I wasn't enjoying it Right, I was like, ok, and it was yeah, and for me that was good sex. Oh, I made him come this fast. Or oh, he thinks I'm so good in bed because I did X, y and Z. It wasn't because this is bringing my body.
Speaker 2:Right, but it was like disembodied good sex in one direction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's. That's actually really interesting. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing that and sharing those details, because I think you know, the longer I'm in this field, the more sort of endless nuances that I find, and that even sometimes with the best intent of educational approaches if you're really not getting into the details of teaching, like a woman, how to know our body and like our body and explore our own bodies and that the fundamental bottom line message is like you have a right to your desire, you have a right to your arousal, you have a right to your pleasure and normalizing all of that. And then each young woman and then aging woman that always knows at each stage of life that like, oh, yeah, this might shift and change, but I have a right to this. It's not going to look like other people's because I'm unique and but I could keep exploring this and that should be the gold standard, but, yeah, it always still ends up in a black and white, I think, even when people are trying to give space for flexibility. It's interesting and disheartening.
Speaker 1:Another message that and a lot of my listeners have this idea and thought and question there's a general belief, especially from men who are older, and I'm going to, so I'm going to say I'm going to push the limit on this and say, 35 and up certainly 40 and up that women, once they're past 35 or 40, no longer have a libido, no longer want sex and no longer enjoy sex and just don't get turned on. And and I, like studies don't actually show that that's true. I don't believe that's true. I certainly am not experiencing that myself. I'm like, fucking turned on all the time. Body is a little out of control these days. I work hard for it though. I work hard for it. All right, guys, my job's tough, my job stuff, but I do put a lot of effort into, like enjoying and maintaining my sexual self and and then using it to empower the rest of my life. But can you talk about that? Can you talk to my listeners about women's arousal ability to get aroused libido?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Later in life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I mean I would say the main big factors that we're more likely to see 40 and beyond is one, folks are more likely in long-term relationships. And two, you've got perimenopause and menopause. So one is a very like you know, relational, sociological, but also physiological that when we are with the same person time and time again in a monogamous relationship, women more likely statistically are to see a decline in their desire. And then if you have a decline in desire that can go hand in hand with the decline in arousal, or it's just harder to even get to the arousal part because you're not interested in sex and all. So that's a very real thing that can be at that time period.
Speaker 2:And then the other piece is the perimenopause and menopause, which are very real hormonal shifts and hormonal shifts specifically that impact the vulva and the vagina, the urethra. That is, the shift in the tissue that it becomes much thinner and more brittle and you're not getting blood flow in the same way You're not getting, with the drop in estrogen, you're not getting vaginal lubrication on your own also. So those are very real physiological shifts. And then sort of emotional relational shifts that can lead to physiological shifts. That can lead to physiological shifts.
Speaker 2:You take though one of those women maybe out of her regular life and plop her into a context where she, you know, is relaxed and getting sleep and doesn't have kids around and is enjoying herself, or is on vacation and has hot young things hitting on her, like the likelihood of experiencing some desire and arousal is absolutely still there. So I do think there's very real, you know, contextual factors that impact women in midlife. I also think you know, the more that we're talking about consent and boundaries, the less women are willing to put up with bullshit and going along to do things just for obligation sake. So, yeah, and then I'd throw into also, like I said, it's not uncommon for one or both people in a long-term relationship to experience a drop in their desire, and I think we just we don't know what to do with that because we're never.
Speaker 2:we only have the Hollywood version of of desire and overwhelming arousal and orgasm and everybody's easily orgasmic and none of that is real in most long term relationships, let alone with how our lives are designed, with so much work and driving kids everywhere and going to school and making ends meet and taking care of a house and not getting enough sleep, and then basically, technology interferes with everything. So there's so much about like our lifestyle factors of also the nuclear family that's just one family taking care of a whole household and all the kids and everything that doesn't at all aid in desire and, frankly, even closeness for couples, again with your contexts that are necessary to be able to jump into things and then give your body a chance to get aroused and turned on. So does that answer your question?
Speaker 1:It sounds like context is a big piece for women. What their surrounding is what their lifestyle is like, how their partner treats intimacy and approaches intimacy. It should not be that a woman has to be on vacation in order to have the space to light up desire. Right, right, right.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say but that is, that is our, that is our current life and technology, while it's supposed to make things easier, absolutely makes it more hectic. And we're just on call 24-7. That's not good for our nervous systems, that's not good for our relationships, it's not good for marriages, it's not good for parenting, it's just not Right.
Speaker 1:Right, but men still are able to maintain sort of a quick arousal.
Speaker 2:men don't necessarily have the same problem, correct, right, and I do. Some men, some men, if they're under high stress, you know, or they've drank a lot, and then often then, once you've crossed 50, you know, because you'll get less blood flow, there'll be some hormonal shifts, so, but in general, men do tend to keep higher desire levels and then more quick arousal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in their bodies, because we are wired, men tend to prioritize their sexual appetite and I think that that has a lot to do with our society puts a lot of value on a sexually virile man who has sex with lots of women and it makes him like a desirable man, whereas you know, and I'd like to think, things are shifting.
Speaker 1:For Gen Z and younger generations, but certainly millennials and beyond, women who desired sex and have sex with lots of people or go after sex or have sex with younger people are considered horrors and dirty and to lose value. Right, that's the message at least the red pill men out there are trying to push that a woman who loves sex and wants to have sex or at least enjoy sex with multiple people loses her value. And so you know, it only makes sense that if you are getting that message and then you're struggling with context and in your life, all the crazy things you have to take care of, and then a long-term relationship with a partner who doesn't know how to build space in for arousal, that you would devalue even trying to address it as you get older, and it would feel like relief to throw the whole fucking thing out the door and say I'm done with this part of my life. It's been so stressful, I just don't want to deal with it anymore.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think that's important, that you're saying that hopefully we really are seeing generational changes around that, that with the younger generations and at least on social media, that there is more of a normalization that everybody's sexual, everybody has a right to be sexual, everybody has a right to put up boundaries, to ask for what you want, to say yes, to say no, to explore, regardless of gender. We are seeing shifts in that, although, frankly, that stuff never seems to stick for women, not in a way that's actually embodied and empowering for women, right, it still can often be that sort of performance aspect of it. So, but certainly, yeah, the older generations, and I would say particularly maybe 40 women that are 45 or 50 and older, really did grow up with the you know, the biggest stigma you could have in high school, which is probably still there that was to be labeled a slut or a whore, and it didn't matter if you were actually even sexual at all, it would just be. If it's attached to you, then you are belittled and degraded and people feel like they have a right to treat you badly. So that is still, and that is something that, as women, we tend to carry throughout our lifetimes and I do think that absolutely, those societal messaging and that shame around it and that right there's, there's shame if you're not sexual enough and their shame if you're too sexual, and then there really is no you know right middle place. It's only defined by other people and how they judge us. So, yes, those, I think those societal factors are massive. I think those societal factors are massive.
Speaker 2:One thing that's a shift that, particularly around menopause for women, maybe early to mid 50s, if, depending on how the hormonal shifts, where a woman sort of ends up around her, her desire, there can be a shift in the opposite direction. I see this with so many women that they're like I'm, I'm, I've taken care of all y'all. My whole life I prioritized your need, I've cooked you meals, I've driven you places. You're off to college. Now I don't want to take care of any children. They get divorced or they separate and just sort of get their own home and live their own lives. Or they start traveling more with girlfriends and they might be and they're trying vibrators for the first time and they're grabbing lube and they are feeling a freedom to explore, even though that was never taught to them growing up.
Speaker 2:But there's something, and I truly think it's a shift of like that you're not. You know you aren't. Mainly women aren't mainly defined through their familial roles. But I also think it's a shift, and it's the drop in estrogen that that makes us more want to be caretakers and connect, and that women are like F you. It's not about you anymore, it's about me, and for some women that can be then starting sexual exploration in a way they've never done before.
Speaker 2:And there's and there's so much well, there's so much Well, there's so much. That's changed in decades since maybe before, when they were exploring at all but there's just this new like you know, I'm not, I'm not. I don't want to deal with societal bullshit, standards anymore, or judgment of my body, or my body doesn't look good enough, or I gain some weight and that means I'm less valuable. You know F you. This is about me. This is about me taking care of me. It's about not about me looking pretty for you or taking care of you or doing anything for you. So that shift is an interesting thing to watch, especially now that menopause and perimenopause truly have become hot topics pun intended and that we're just getting so much more education around it and normalization of these topics and the shifts for women's bodies and the aspect of how important sexual health is.
Speaker 1:I think there is a shift. I think that people in our age range, I would say and 40 and up, maybe late 30s even, are women are waking up to 30s. Even our women are waking up to I want my life, I want to feel sexy again, I want to have good sex again, I want to do some crazy kinky things. You know, I want to do the things and they're hearing more about it because these conversations are becoming more mainstream, whether society wants them to or not, and I know right now in America, this is not what America wants to hear happening.
Speaker 1:But fuck you, we're going to do it anyways. Right, and I'm certainly. I feel very blessed. I'm in a sex positive community. I have been given sort of the keys to the golden gate of like fun sexual experimentation, and a lot of that is facilitated by age and being like oh, now I'm disregarded because I'm 40. Well, I guess I can do whatever the fuck I want. I've gone and done it and then some right, yeah, and then also I think it's great.
Speaker 1:This is a great segue into what do we do about the arousal gap? And you bring up menopause and look, the arousal gap can happen really at any time in life. But something to help us segue into like, what do we do about it? Obviously, there's a big part of that that happens in the 40s. There's a significant shift and fortunately, menopause and the studies and the work and the treatments for it are finally being addressed in a big way. It's a hot topic. There's a lot of pressure to figure it out for women. Women are like why has nobody helped us with this? You know, it gives you a little more compassion for our mothers and grandmothers who are like a pain in the ass at this time in their life right.
Speaker 1:Because they didn't get the help. Like I was miserable when menopause kicked in but I was aggressive in figuring out like how I was. Like I cannot function like that. There are treatments for it. There are multiple avenues with hormone regulation, hrt, all sorts of different treatments that women can seek now to find balance, and in that balance you can even kind of knock up your libido, potentially get a little kick to your sex drive and arousal.
Speaker 2:I'm a little spicy these days.
Speaker 1:You've got the arousal gap, guys, you know what we're talking about. You are wanting to get some. She is doing everything she can to avoid you. She is doling out obligatory sex once a month, maybe once every other month, because she knows she has to. She looks away while you pound away at her and it makes you die a little inside every time. I understand this is horrible for everybody. So how do we start to address the arousal gap? Can we start knocking off some of the things women can do, couples can do to address it together?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the first two places my head went is one I feel like we still don't, particularly for women in long-term relationships. We're not necessarily talking about pleasure and really at the core, and how pleasure? Because if our bodies are always changing and our hormones are always changing, and if you've given births and let alone perimenopause and menopause, that means our physiology is always changing. So then our access to desire will shift and change and sometimes there's a grieving process that what used to be easy or fun or would easily bring you to orgasm, like doesn't work anymore. It doesn't work in the same way. So my first thought is like, well, if you're not experiencing much pleasure, then right, you're not going to want to keep seeking out a sexual encounter, let alone if you're experiencing pain. There's a whole nother level because you know it is wired in our bodies as animals that if something brings about physical pain generally we want to avoid it because you know it doesn't seem right for us. So that piece of just normalizing that like yeah, what feels pleasurable shifts and changes over time and maybe it's a little like harder to access or create, requires more creativity. So that's one thought and you know, treat your body like a playground, like going a little nooks and crannies and move around and try different toys. Like I said, try different lubes and different body parts, from your neck to your nipples to you know your mouth and your tongue and you know your inner thighs and your vulva and all around and the entrance to your vagina and around your clitoris and the entrance to your anus and inside, like all of that, has so many nerve endings and maybe what used to work doesn't work anymore. But if you can be exploratory and open minded to that of playing with your body in new ways, you might find new ways that bring pleasure. So one that's, and that's the physical pleasure. But the other aspect of pleasure is like our brains still really are our biggest sex organs in so many ways. So do play with listening to audio erotic apps and those amazing stories that are very sexy, and you could choose them in genres that you want so that your, your brain's getting kicked in and releasing some of those neurochemicals. That's kicking off some desire and kicking off some arousal for yourself.
Speaker 2:So the first one is is awareness and creativity around pleasure. And then the second one is like we need to be talking about these things and with our partners. So you know, specifically in a long-term relationship, the number of couples. You know, I heard a gentleman a while ago. He was maybe in his early 60s and I was talking about menopause and menopausal changes to women's bodies and that it's common that if they're not getting any sort of hormone replacement that they may experience pain during intercourse. He was stunned like didn't know it, didn't know that was a thing, and they didn't know that his wife was probably silently suffering. And so I was like, oh like, and then felt terrible, you know, and it felt terrible and then was like did I not create a safe space for her to talk about that? I didn't even ask, I didn't know to ask.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm a big fan of weekly check-ins and monthly check-ins for couples, like when I do coaching with couples and it's different for each couple. But if you have some topic that you've been avoiding and it's just getting brushed under the rug, brushed under the rug, make sure you create little chunks of time, even just 15 minutes once a week, to be talking about these things. And I, you know, and it could be, you know, make up a list of 10 different components of your body that maybe sometimes feels pleasure or used to, and just discuss how it's changed. You know, just or get one of those boxes of questions around sexual questions, or there's so many ways. There's a lot of tools out there to help structure a conversation, but just start having the conversation and normalize that.
Speaker 2:You are talking about your body, you're talking about these vulnerable topics that maybe you feel shame about or you're afraid of being judged for, you're afraid of being rejected for, or you're afraid of not doing it right and you're going to make your partner feel shamed or rejected.
Speaker 2:We just these these hard conversations about vulnerable topics, but they're generally at the at the core of them. Why they're so important is that there's some need that's not being met and it could be emotional, mental, physical, sexual. But start creating a context where you are normalizing the discomfort of having these conversations so over time, you start to feel more comfortable with it. So just start by having conversations and then, by bit by bit, you're going to be creating this ongoing space that you can bring up these topics and then figure out how to be a team together, because that is I mean if you want to be one of those couples that in your 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, you look back and you're like. Well, our bodies don't look like they used to and they don't function in the same way, but I feel closer to you and more loved by you and more seen and understood and connected and intimate with you than ever before. You need to be talking and working as a team to get there.
Speaker 1:Right, I think one of the coolest things I've really learned in the last year and a half is how like turned on compassion from my partner and sweetness and interest in seeing my not only my pleasure.
Speaker 1:I think sometimes men especially get focused on I want to see you have pleasure. But what turns me on as a partner who is like I want to see you have peace and to feel secure and to know that I'm here and boy, and to know that I'm here and boy, she gets wet like that when I have a conversation with a partner. I recently was able to just say to a partner after kind of a it wasn't a hard conversation, it was something that triggered anxiety in me. I was able to say I know this is my stuff, but I'm feeling kind of anxious right now about security in our relationship and I'm like would you be willing to help me feel more secure? And he was like right there. He was like, yeah, I'm absolutely like I could hear him lock in. He just locked right in and was like yeah, let's talk.
Speaker 1:And there like seriously, it could have brought tears to my eyes. It wasn't that it could have, it did. It brought tears to my eyes and my heart to swell. Because it's like that's the kind of stuff that really connects a woman to you and gives her starts. Talking about context, gives her the space Peace will give her the space to open up, and I'm saying open up everywhere we're talking about all holes opening up right.
Speaker 1:Seriously, and I don't think a lot of guys know that. I think at a young age we get into this idea that arousal and interest is in this cat and mouse push and pull like keep her on the edge, so she's interested. Keeping someone on the edge is anxiety. Anxiety may be exciting at first but it's depleting and eventually it does the opposite. Right Anxiety not a libido booster.
Speaker 2:No, I think it's yes. I think you've stated that so well, and every once in a while, I get on a soapbox for myself if I'm talking to a man in my life and I'd be like I don't think you guys understand how, from such a young age, most women gosh. This makes me want to cry. Saying this most women move through this world in a way that people are trying to take something from our bodies and or they are trying to hurt us or they're trying to take something sexually, that it is something that they want from us or that they want to harm us in some way.
Speaker 2:And so the lack of safety of walking at nighttime or being able to have a job that has you out, you know, doing public transportation late at night, like how much, how many limitations so many women have to put on our lives to try to just keep our bodies safe and our bodies not target for others. And then that the place that it most shows up and is our most intimate interactions with others, or specifically in this case, with men and men not realizing it's such a basic level. What a freaking gift that is If we are in that moment and are trusting them with our bodies and with our naked bodies, and to be able to share this experience together. Like, please, like. Take it to heart, like what that means if she's trusting in this moment and that you play a massive role in deserving the respect of that level of trust.
Speaker 1:Right, it is something where you should feel honored, right, like honored to get to go there and to not be taken for granted. And the other thing men need to hear, like talking about that guardedness, that women always have a certain level, and you didn't bring up and I know that part of that is many, if not I would venture to say most of us have been sexually assaulted or sexually traumatized in some way across our life, if not once, multiple times on multiple levels. A big part of lack of arousal is our bodies are guarded right down to our vagina. When the vagina doesn't want to get aroused, turned on, open up or wet, it's because it's trying to protect anything from entering it, including sexual assault. So your job, if you want her to be turned on, is to create that safety and security and space. Yeah, and that's not an easy job.
Speaker 2:No, it requires a lot of mindfulness and appreciation and space of patience and we know the difference. When somebody says, oh no, no, like this is all fun, we'll only do what you want, and versus. Really, when somebody's like, oh no, we'll only do what you want, like you could feel that difference. If somebody starts sort of pushing or trying to take versus, they really are just creating this container for you to be together and let it flow organically.
Speaker 2:One point I do want to make sure I make, just for anybody out there who's listening, just to make sure, like sometimes, when folks experience sexual assault or rape, their bodies do turn on, their body physiologically, will respond to sensations. That does not mean you want it. That does not mean you're asking for it. That does not mean you want it. That does not mean you're asking for it. That does not mean that you're there. None of that. None of that Like. Sometimes our bodies do just respond on our own, even though the rest of it not at all. So I just I feel like that gets used against women sometimes, or even men sometimes that have been raped. You'd be like you know what he got a heart on, like he must have really wanted it. That's horrible and talking, walking around with folks and then who feel like their body betrayed them or they can't trust their own body, or maybe they really did want it or they really did cause it. I just I want to dispel any misinformation around that.
Speaker 1:Right, and then because then there's also a lot of guilt.
Speaker 1:So another thing that is a libido killer for women is most women are walking around with some amount of guilt, whether it's from sexual trauma, whether it's from religious sexual trauma, and there is so much of that.
Speaker 1:That's a whole different topic, different topic Most women who are involved in any kind of religion that's relatively strict, which most of them are, are going to have a complicated relationship with sex because of all of the messaging around there. So all of those things, shame is definitely going to kill the mood If you know your body gets turned on and then you're like I'm a bad person because my body is turned on, which is a message that's given to us. So for partners, to women, whether it's you know, you're a woman with a woman, or a man, especially a man, who's living a totally different reality than women, right, reality than women, right, understand all of these things are in the way and if you want to know how to light up her desire and we're not talking about an instant fix, I think a lot of you just want like a you know, give her a pill so she gets horny.
Speaker 1:I want it now. You know that's not going to. That is not going to be the fix. The fix is to begin to create a safe, shame-free place where she can feel invited in by you and like she can enjoy things with you without being punished for or judged for, guilted or guilted for it. You know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the starting point, and I think that speaks to a lot of my public speaking.
Speaker 2:That I do is on a big picture of intimacy and like really what that intimacy is, that we can, at its at its core is that we can let our walls down, our armor down that we all have up to protect ourselves, and we can dismantle that and be our raw, messy, beautiful humans that we all are and that we create the space for someone to do the same, like that level of intimacy that you're not being shamed, you're not being judged, you're being seen and accepted and loved for who you are.
Speaker 2:And I think that's at the core of being able to be again in a human body that's always shifting and changing, but still wanting to connect sexually. We need that level of intimacy and creating that safety for each other. And that doesn't just start, you know, when you're climbing into bed together, but that's all day long. You know, because if you've shamed or judged your partner for something else or disrespected them or yell, you know we're yelling at them. All of those things, particularly for women, like you said it just it shuts us down. It shuts us down from our head down to our vaginal openings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all of it. Yeah, I was just sitting here thinking that kind of another place that partners can help women, because women really have been taught not to prioritize their sexual, their sensuality, especially after having children. But generally speaking, that's supposed to be put in a corner. If you want to start, you know, creating a more mutual, mutually aroused, you know, relationship with your partner is supporting her in prioritizing her sexual energy, her relationship with her sexuality, her like value of pleasure, experiencing pleasure, chasing it, learning about it. You know, having starting those conversations like how do you feel, do you feel sexy? How do you feel about getting sexy? What can I do to support that? Yeah, what does sex mean to you? Yes, like simple conversations like that. Yes, and make them fun. Conversations Like sex talk with your partner is fun.
Speaker 2:Ideally. But if you've had years of resentment, hurt feelings, rejection, guilt, feeling broken self-worth and self-esteem, concerns, feeling pushed, feeling obligated, all of that makes it not fun. Sensual intimacy or sexual intimacy is once a week schedule, something I like to call a happy naked fun time, where you block off just 45 minutes. But you know, once a week you've got this blocked off time and you're very intentional about making it a time that you aren't interrupted by technology, aren't interrupted by kids, ideally don't have pets in the room, because the number of people whose dogs interfere with their sex lives seems really high. So you've blocked it off as this time for you guys to connect with each other, because so often for women right, first of all, there's just not the space dedicated to it and the intentional space to be present in her body and to be connecting with her partner in that way. But the and so you can plan your day around it too. Like, let me, I feel better after I go for a jog, so I'm going to make sure I block off some time to make sure I exercise today, and I feel better when I'm well hydrated, so I'm going to make sure I take care of myself. I'm actually going to do a little meditation. So I feel grounded in my body, like all of those things are big picture things that help women take care of themselves, and then sleep is a massive one. So if women are able to take care of themselves in all of these ways, it's a lot easier to be present in the moment and in their body and open to sexual experiences with their partners and open to sexual experiences with their partners. But if their only time for their body each day is like the quick shower you know that they take, that they squeeze in between things and then they're, you know, expected to spend 20 minutes with you of sexual time, so many women would rather be like I would like those 20 minutes of extra sleep. I would like to read a pleasure book for myself so I can decompress.
Speaker 2:So I would say so often, especially if a woman is the lower desire person, if she's not getting the self-care in these other ways that really are nurturing and grounding and good for her body, it's going to be really hard then to take the leap, the thing that's hard to do to try to get your body feeling sexual when it feels like you're doing it for someone else, when you haven't even taken care of yourself first.
Speaker 2:So there's it, and that's going to differ by each woman, but yeah, so I would say, make sure there's other components, be naked, fun time. That really is about bringing your bodies together to connect and to relax and talk some about your day and start touching each other and massaging each other then to allow the desire or the arousal to start kicking in in your body, like creating the space for it. But it's a real fine line of then having the expectation, because if the expectation is for you to feel turned on and aroused, that's performance anxiety for men and women and that can cause just a shutdown in our body, naturally knowing what it's doing and taking over in those moments. So, as the partner of somebody in that situation, as the higher desire person, as much as you can do to really create, like we said, these safe spaces without expectations or taking anything, so that her body can start to open up and experience some pleasure and connection and then move forward, then you know, with your sexy time.
Speaker 1:So I love that idea. I love that idea, all right. So let's give, take the last bit of time here to give our listeners sort of a go pack. They're going home tonight they are having, after this conversation, of a better idea of what the arousal experience is like for the woman in their life and maybe a better little peek in at why she's just not getting into the mood. What are some things that you would say my listeners can do tonight to start shifting and changing that arousal, closing the gap and helping their partner get in the mood more often?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, I would look at and whether you're yeah, whether you're the higher desire higher arousal person or lower, lower desire lower arousal person, look at it in three categories emotional, mental and physical. And so because that's an easy little, you know buckets to put things in. So the first place is like what? What emotions are you feeling around this? Are you feeling guilty? Are you around this? Are you feeling guilty? Are you feeling broken? Are you feeling rejected? Because if we have unidentified and unowned emotions, they will wreak havoc under the surface of any conversation we're trying to have or any relationship. So first, shine a bright light on that and I encourage folks with the somatic aspect of mindfulness to really figure out where you feel those emotions in your body, because often they feel terrible and we've been avoiding them. So start there and do some breathing into those emotions and just build comfort with discomfort. And then, in terms of the mental component, I would start writing down First of all, do you have beliefs that you're still carrying from childhood or teen years that are interfering, like that you're not good enough or women don't deserve pleasure, and get clear on that. So some journaling on that and then write a list of questions like what topics. Am I avoiding? What am I not facing? What am I afraid to? What do I want? To ask my partner that I haven't, and just start getting clear on all of that.
Speaker 2:And then, in terms of the physical aspect of it, we both have components where we talk to our partner about what we like or how we, like you know, want things to be initiated, or how our pleasure may be changing. And then we have components of what I like to call priming our own pump. So, in particular with women, some of us have been taught that it's someone else's responsibility to turn us on. And so what does it look like if we start priming our own pump, which is listening to audio erotic stories to get things turned on, or grabbing a vibrator?
Speaker 2:Or you know, I'm here as a representative, the sex and relationship expert for Pure Lubricants that's been around for 30 years with high quality lubricants, and they've come out with a new woman lust orgasm gel that they call, and it's something you put on your vulva or on your clitoris. It kicks in very fast and you get this like tingling, warmth sensation and only lasts for 15 minutes gap between arousal and the sensations in our genitals and feeling turned on and pleasurable sensations with our brain of being. You know, because we talked about that early on, that we can have that disconnect. So playing with products like that can help us feel more centered around our vulva and our vagina and our clit and tune into those sensations so that we do know that I am a sexual woman. This does feel good. I have a right to experience pleasure, but sometimes that, you know, takes some creativity to be able to explore that in new ways.
Speaker 1:There you go, guys. You got a nice big go pack for getting started tonight. It's. You know there isn't a quick fix to this. I mean there are some little things you can do. You know there isn't a quick fix to this. I mean there are some little things you can do, like you've got the arousal gels that give you that sort of give you that you know, window of time to really work, work, some magic.
Speaker 1:And I've got a lot of how to's on that and toy recommendations for that. But there is a bigger picture here, picture here, and the only way that arousal gap is going to close is if everybody, regardless of gender, starts to work on it together. Yeah, I mean, that's got to happen. So, guys, if you want to get laid and I know you do I know you got to pitch in here right, because when you do meet and get to be with a woman who is able to really embrace and embody her pleasure and sexual energy, that's a different experience and one you're going to want to have again and again, and every woman has a right to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I, yeah. I think you summarized it beautifully that we're we're in this together, but that means honoring that everybody's different and things are shifting and that's not bad or wrong. How do you be a compassionate, creative team around it?
Speaker 1:Is there something in it for everybody?
Speaker 2:Also remember.
Speaker 1:I hear oftentimes, and I see comments oftentimes from men who are like why is it all about the women's pleasure, why is it all about what women want? And it's really not right. The reality is men get aroused easier. The reality is men get off easier. Yeah, it's all about making an equal pleasure-filled situation experience and the benefit is for everybody, right, everybody gets something out of it. This is a win-win.
Speaker 2:I promise you a win-win for everybody, right and if we're not intentional around women's desire and and pleasure and arousal and orgasm, it's much less likely to happen, like that's just a physiological, societal reality. Yeah, and most sexual encounters, heterosexual encounters, still revolve around intercourse with penetration by a penis and a penis that has an orgasm. That is still how we define sex in general in a mainstream definition. So if we are not paying attention to how women experience arousal and pleasure differently than men and how it's such a variety within women, it's way way less likely to happen. So intentionality and communication, and we can't make assumptions and we need to be willing to have these awkward conversations because they can be awkward but embrace the awkward.
Speaker 1:Right, and you know you could make it a less awkward conversation to just send your partner this episode. There you go. We did all the work for you, that's right. Just have her start writing down which things apply to her and then you've got your go. You got your little go list and know what to start working on. You're welcome, our job is done here, that's right. And on that note, will you tell my listeners where they can find out more about you, reach you, listen to you after they finish this episode?
Speaker 2:Yeah, my main hub for all my stuff is my Dr Jen's Den website, so it's drjennsdencom. But what I tell folks, just go into Google, type any version of spelling of Dr Jen's Den and sex and you will find me. And so you'll find my website. And that's my hub for podcasts, two TEDx talks, my book that came out about five, six years ago just tons, tons of articles and materials and videos. So much from over the years. I've been at this for a while. And then please, finally, on social media, in particular Instagram, dr Jen's Den, please join the conversations. We started this in the beginning. We can never be talking about these topics enough to normalize and destigmatize and reduce shame and increase connection and accurate information.
Speaker 1:That's right. So if you've ever sat there thinking why can't I just want sex like I used to, or why does it feel like I'm always trying to catch up, this is your reminder that arousal is not a light switch. It's a process, a build, a dance between your body, your brain and your boundaries, and you're allowed to take your time. Dr Jen, thank you so much for joining me. I know that my listeners are going to get a lot out of this episode, and, listeners, if you have any questions or comments for me or Dr Jen, you know what to do. You can head over to my YouTube channel at TalkSexWithAnnette and you can drop a comment below the video.
Speaker 1:If you are a listener on my podcast, you can also just send me an email at Annette at TalkSexWithAnnettecom. You can scroll down to the speak pipe link below and send me a voicemail. And if you are looking for a wing woman, a cheerleader, if you will, in your own pleasure journey you know that my coaching books are open you can get ahold of me the same way. So hopefully tonight y'all will go home and turn each other on a little bit quicker, a little bit more. Tonight You're welcome and until next time, listeners, I'll see you in the locker room. Cheers, cheers.