Talk Sex with Annette (Locker Room Talk & Shots)
Talk Sex with Annette
Where desire meets disruption—and pleasure becomes power.
Hosted by sex and intimacy coach Annette Benedetti, Talk Sex with Annette is the go-to podcast for bold, unfiltered conversations at the intersection of sexuality, identity, and empowerment.
From kink to connection, self-love to sexual healing, Annette dives into the topics most people are too afraid to touch—with expert guests, raw storytelling, and a feminist lens that challenges shame and reclaims pleasure.
Think smart, sexy, and radically real: this is the cultural conversation around sex that’s long overdue.
Talk Sex with Annette (Locker Room Talk & Shots)
Women Dating Women Isn’t Easier—It’s Just Different (And Still Hot as Hell)
You thought dating women would be easier? Think again.
This Pride Month, I’m pulling back the sheets on what it really looks like when women date women. Spoiler alert: it’s not just soft touches, flannel, and U-Hauls. There’s bi-phobia, late-in-life confusion, misread signals, and emotional landmines no one warned us about. But there’s also unmatched heat, intimacy, and magic—when you know what you’re doing.
In this collab episode, I’m joined by Dr. Frankie Bashan, clinical psychologist, sex therapist, and queer matchmaker extraordinaire. Together, we explore why queer femme/sapphic dating can feel so confusing, how trauma and gender roles sneak into our relationships, and what actually builds real, healthy connection—without losing the spark.
Whether you’re queer, questioning, or just curious about what it’s like when two women fall (and sometimes crash) into love, this one’s for you.
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Cheers!
Do the sex? I'm Annette Benedetti, host of the podcast formerly known as Locker Room Talkin' Shots. The show has a new name Talk Sex with Annette, but at its core, this is still your locker room.
Speaker 1:It's where we strip away shame, get curious and speak the unspoken about sex, kink dating, pleasure and desire Around here, nothing's off limits. Pleasure and desire Around here, nothing's off limits. These are the kinds of conversations we save for our boldest group chats, our most trusted friends and, of course, the women's locker room. Think raw, honest and sometimes unapologetically raunchy. If you've been here from the beginning, thank you, and if you're new, welcome to my podcast, where desire meets disruption and pleasure becomes power. Now let's talk about sex Cheers. Today's Talk Sex with Annette.
Speaker 1:Topic is queer dating. How does it look different than you might see it in the heterosexual world? It is Pride Month and y'all know I'm queer and I've been dating. It's been interesting and I am very excited today to like drill down into what dating looks like as a queer woman. In my case, I'm queer by pan. I pretty much am attracted to everybody, but a lot of the time dating is seen through the lens of heteronormative society and so when those of us who might discover we are queer later in life especially discover we are queer later in life especially and we want to start meeting people, it's like there is no guidebook and it is not like it was when we were just dating the opposite sex, and the struggle is real. I think that's what you'll hear across the board. Well, it doesn't have to be as difficult anymore. You are not alone. I have an expert here, if you will, on dating as a queer person.
Speaker 1:Today, I am joined by the incredible Dr Frankie Bichon, a licensed clinical psychologist, board-certified sex therapist and the powerhouse behind Little Gay Book and Little Black Book matchmaking.
Speaker 1:She spent over two decades helping people find love, build intimacy and get real about their desires. We are going to break down what dating as a queer person looks like, some of the common challenges and how to navigate them and possibly, hopefully, find love. But before we dive in, I want to remind you that I am over on OnlyFans and there I'm sharing my sex and intimacy how-tos, demonstrations and audio guided self-pleasure meditations, all designed to help you start having better sex and intimacy with someone else or yourself, starting tonight. You can also find me over on Substack doing the same and so much more, and you can find me in both places with my handle at TalkSexWithAnnette but lucky you. If you scroll down to the description in this episode, you're going to find links to everywhere you could possibly want to find me there, but for now let's dive into dating as a queer person. Frankie, can you tell my listeners just a little bit more about you?
Speaker 2:Sure. First of all, I want to thank you, annette, for having me on Excited to be here. More about me I'm originally from Manhattan, so that I think I have a very much an East Coast vibe about me that I haven't lost. I've been in California now, for you know, like 25 years. I moved out here to get my doctorate in clinical psychology to Berkeley. I'm a mom. I've got twins boy-girl twins that are 20 years old. Can't believe that I don't feel much older than 28 myself. How in the world do you know what I mean? Did I have kids that are now 20? And I just I love my career. I feel so blessed and I'm happy to talk all about it with you today.
Speaker 1:All right, guys. So you're gonna stay to the end Because, well, if you're straight, you're just going to want to know what we're doing over here on the other side of dating, because it's fun and sexy. If you are queer and I know there are so many of you out there who are we're going to help you figure out how to do this shit, because I'm still at a loss. So by the end of this podcast, you're going to know exactly what you need to do to find love. All right, maybe that's an overstatement, but you're going to be a little bit closer to having some tips on how to navigate, getting out there and dating and finding the partner you want to find. So let's dive in. Are you ready, frankie? Let's talk.
Speaker 1:First of all, cheers, happy pride, happy pride and here's to finding love someday. Cheers, I'm gonna put you in the hot seat. I recently it was a quickie started, uh, dating a woman. Um, I would call and I feel like this is derogatory and you can tell me I referred, referred to her as a baby bi, meaning a woman. She was a grown woman who had kind of recently discovered her queerness and was diving into navigating that.
Speaker 1:And I met her and I was like sometimes baby queers can be messy, messy, messy and it was instantly messy. But I was also like she's real cute, pretty funny, and dating women is hard. Dating as a queer woman is hard, dating as not a lesbian woman is hard. And I know I also run retreats for bi and queer women and we all talk about the same difficulty. How do you know when someone, if you are looking at dating someone who is the same sex as you, same gender as you, how do you know if they're queer? How do you address them and flirt with them? How do you keep them from going into the friend zone?
Speaker 2:That's like one of the most, yeah, that's like one of the most popular questions. But it's tough, right, because if you're attracted to more feminine women, you can't, you don't, you can't tell if they're queer. So I always say, just be direct and just be curious, just ask Are you queer? I mean, are you part of the queer community? No-transcript, right, you look, maybe you know, because people also ask how do I signify? What symbols can I wear? How can I? Is there something I can? Can I change the way that I walk? They'll ask us things like that, you know, because they want to be identifiable to the right people. So, yeah, I think it's tough, but there are definitely tattoos are helpful, and I just think, in general, right now it's tough dating period, whether you're straight or gay.
Speaker 2:But there are clear challenges that apply to our community. That have been, they continue to be challenges, and one is just sheer numbers. We don't have the same volume of singles, LGBTQ plus singles, and then also, on top of that, people have very specific types, like of women or gay men or whatever that they're attracted to, whether it be like where it falls on the masculinity, femininity spectrum, gender expression. So people can be very specific. So I use a scale as a matchmaker. I'll just say on a scale from one to 10, 10 being high femme, five being androgynous, one being kind of stone butch, very, very masculine, like one step before transgender.
Speaker 2:Where would you say you would place yourself? Give me a range. And what about the person you're attracted to? Where would they fall? Give me a range and then explain the nuances. So if somebody is like five to seven, frankie, okay, well, what does that mean to you? Five's androgynous? Seven to me is kind of like, you know, kind of more feminine but maybe more sporty. They're not going to be the high femme, that's a 10 that you know has their nails done all the time and that takes maybe an hour in front of the mirror to apply makeup, kind of like a JLo or Beyonce.
Speaker 2:So we get nitty gritty about it. You know and that's really different than I think heterosexual matchmakers what they experience it's like cis hetero men. They want a hot woman, to date, right, but you know, lesbian women are like I want a woman who is sporty but feminine. Or, you know, can be androgynous but wears men's underwear, doesn't wear right, doesn't wear lacy brawn underwear, okay, all right. Or they can be androgynous, but they can't carry around a purse. You see this like there are certain specific artifacts or you know ways of being or presenting that can be a turn on or a turn off. Yeah, that is, that makes it harder. So specific.
Speaker 1:I didn't even realize. So I'm getting insight just learning from this and it's interesting from my perspective. I like such a wide range of. I'm attracted to a wide range of women. I don't know that I could nail down one type, but I run into the problem with myself because I think generally I present as a pretty high femme.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty feminine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not good at sports. I will try to go out there and hit a softball, but I'll hate it. I'll do it for you. I'll be a sporty if you want me to. But I think along with that also comes in this assumption that I'm more submissive, or that I'm you know, I'm going to be this softer personality and no, we can't make those assumptions, I know butches that are bottoms.
Speaker 2:So it's really important to not assume and actually you want to have a conversation about it, to understand. If you're dating somebody, you want to be curious and ask, Right, Because if you like a dominant butch, you know you'll want to know before you find yourself in bed with that person and you're like whoa, we're definitely a mismatch. There are a lot of butches.
Speaker 1:That are little softies out there. They're so soft and sweet and there is this assumption that, oh, butch means dominant. There's a lot of and.
Speaker 1:I'm going to say this and you can correct me if you think I'm wrong. I do think there's also a lot of misogyny that carries over into especially the queer femme dynamic the idea of what roles are, of what looks are and what should be lie beneath them, right, and so, I think, a lot of queer women. We end up in this place of feeling at odds. Not only are we at odds with our own sexuality and trying to figure it out, but then, like, with our own presentation. You know, I love looking how I do. I love I spend I do spend a good amount of time in front of the mirror in the morning and my self worship altar is what I call it these days. Um and but. Then sometimes that fills in conflict with like. Then the person that shows up and I can see the confusion in people who are dating me and they're like oh, this isn't what I, the package is not, it's not giving me what I thought I was getting into, right, I'll use myself as an example.
Speaker 2:I'm really feminine, but I'm also I have a lot of masculine energy and I can be very dominant. So it sort of just depends. Sometimes it depends on the day. Some days I feel more feminine than others. Sometimes I'll just let you know I'll put on heels and a really fitted dress, and other days I'm wearing like combat boots and jean shorts and a tank top like a wife beater, and you know. So there are a lot of.
Speaker 2:We just people make assumptions and we don't. Most of us humans don't fit into a perfect box. There's so there's variability, there's a range, but we want it to. We're taught that it should be black and white, and I think we're wired that way too, you know. So I think we need to be more curious and not be afraid to ask questions, because the truth is that when people want to learn about you, they're curious about you. It often feels good, as long as there's that feeling of safety. Right, and that's another thing that's different in dating in the LGBTQ plus community is that many people, especially those that are coming out later in life, I wonder how, what your thoughts are on this Cause we're seeing more and more of that. It's it. Safety's really important, like feeling like they they're going to come into it with more guardedness and fear of like the unknown or you know, and go walking into a first date meeting somebody on a dating app. It's probably a little different for a straight person versus a gay person, so that's, off the bat, something to consider.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, as I was saying at the beginning of this, I launched a nonprofit called Bi Women Empowered that primarily served bi women. It's now being expanded to serve queer identifying women, meaning that they're attracted to a variety of genders, pan women, and a large number of these women or femme identifying people are coming out at an older age, and so I'm talking mid-30s to 40s and beyond. And one thing I want to say and I feel like I re-experienced recently in a big way and I would love to hear your take on this because it's going to also feed into something else that's happening in the LGBT community right now is I think that when women realize that they're queer later in life, it's usually coming out of a relationship, a bad relationship with a man, a cis man, and it's instantly like I'm only going to date women. That's the last man, even though I'm maybe not a lesbian, or maybe I think I'm a lesbian because this sucked so much. And they're like this is going to be so much better, Dating women is going to be so much better and so much easier.
Speaker 1:And in my experience and in my friends, like largely in my community's experience, I think the thing that we're all afraid to say but I think is important to address is that it is in fact not easier and there are things that dating women you don't have to worry about that. You do dating men. And it's like I just don't feel worried for my safety when I go out on a date with a woman like I do with a man. A man is much more likely to overpower me and harm me. Right, we know the risk factor goes up there in physical safety. But I would say this when it comes to emotional safety and how we all treat each other, do not think that you're going to go into dating women and they're going to be any more emotionally safe or treating you better unless they've done their work just like men, right.
Speaker 2:In fact, they have more emotional challenges, I think because there's more trauma. One in three women I think that's statistic. I haven't looked recently, it might have changed have been sexually assaulted. That right there will tell you that if somebody that you're considering dating hasn't done the work, any internal work right, there's just a higher likelihood of interpersonal challenges, attachment challenges, communication challenges, worthiness, shame. I can go on and on. So, yes, it is more. That's one reason why it's more challenging because there's more trauma amongst you know, female born.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you for saying that, because I and people, I wish we would talk about this more openly, because then what happens is you get women who are coming out of traumatic relationships with men and diving into, you know, without stopping and doing the work and healing themselves, healing their nervous system, and then just tumbling into another relationship with a woman who is maybe also in trauma, and then it's just, you know, a lot of pain is created.
Speaker 1:Also because I would say this, something that I'm having to work on with myself is I think I expect more from women. Like, when a guy shits on me, I'm like, eh, a guy shat on me, wow, what a surprise, right. But when a woman does, it can really feel, um, god, it feels extra wounding, cause I'm like, oh, you're supposed to be my community, and I'm not saying it's fair to either gender and also let's acknowledge genders in between, but that you know that's happened. I've had some really bad experiences dating women and I felt shocked by it because, of course, what we see in our social feed and in media is well, women treat women so much better.
Speaker 2:Not real, yeah yeah. So then you have this false expectation that sets you up for disappointment. Then, not to mention right hormones, just pure, like if you're perimenopausal, you're menopausal, you're premenop, whatever. It is like we're dealing with cycles and periods. I've just dealt with that, man Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think what I realized. So I, a year and a half ago, I came out of a really bad relationship that left me, I mean, a total mess, emotionally dysregulated, some real trauma that took place and I really spent a lot of time finding what regulation felt like to be emotionally regulated and I found this beautiful bliss there. So when I finally was like I'm going to open myself to dating again, I'm always like when I meet people, I'm like I'm at my baseline. Now how are they making me feel Right? Are they pulling me off it constantly Right? Pulling me off it constantly Right? And I think that that like is it is something important in relationship with other women who might have trauma. Like this relationship I just got into, I was like off of you know, I was like pulled out of my regulation and pulled out and I kept kind of getting myself back and like talking to her and like is this going to be a?
Speaker 1:constant thing. Is this what we're going to do if we date? You know, and it was definitely going to be a constant thing. Is this what we're going to do if we date? And it was definitely going to be that and I use it as a measure for anybody I'm dating. But I just think that there was this part of me that just felt like oh, of course this is going to be great because this is another woman who's also shared traumatic experiences and she's going to be gentle with my feelings, she's going to know I'm also like in this newly regulated place and care, and that doesn't always happen.
Speaker 1:And I think women need to not go into dating other women, especially newbies or recently coming out bees. Don't think that dating a woman is an answer to all of your problems.
Speaker 2:Agreed. Well said, yeah, annette, I agree with you. I think what it comes down to is that we need to. Most of us have had trauma to varying degrees and at this point in life, if you're in your thirties plus, I think now is the time to start really looking at some of your stuff. You're noticing patterns of behavior. You're noticing that you have blind spots. You're noticing that certain behaviors might trigger your nervous system to get escalated or deregulated, learning tools and skills. It's so essential to have a healthy, just healthy ongoing relationships, and it's not just in romantic relationships. Any kind of interpersonal relationship improves if you do your own work Right. It's so important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so this kind of brings up to mind one of the challenges I think sometimes for also women dating women. There's the joke around the U-Haul situation where women meet each other, they have this date and then they're instantly like future planning together. First of all, I will say in my experience, one of the challenges I have encountered dating women is sort of that Like I'm on the first date and they're already talking about do you want to have a blended family someday? And I'm like dude, I'm just trying to figure out if I even want a second date. Why do you think?
Speaker 1:First of all, do you agree that that does tend to be a generalization for a reason, and I also think it may be tied to women tend to be a little bit more anxious in relationships, and when we experience anxiety, when we meet someone and we start to have those sparks and we think, oh, that anxious feeling is love, like that's fucking love, instead of waiting and experience what being regulated with someone who's kind to you, that's like love. This beautiful, calm, safe feeling is now like what I desire and seek for, and I've been experiencing with someone else, and so it got me wondering. Do you think that's at the root of that U-Haul experience?
Speaker 2:So what a great question. So basically, first of all, it happens in the heterosexual world too, where people can move really fast. But in general I do think the U-Haul stereotype there's some truth to it, especially amongst women, female, you know, born, I want to say cis females that are born that way, right. So the reason is because we're nurturers, we're wired to quickly really connect and nurture and take care of base and camp, right, and so that's. You want to figure that out quickly. So that's why they're asking these questions about the future so early on.
Speaker 2:The other thing is you're dealing with biochemical changes, oxytocin, a hormone that makes us feel like we want to be close and connected. When there's that chemistry serotonin, norepinephrine, neurotransmitters that make us feel euphoric when we have that attraction chemistry piece on board. So your prefrontal cortex gets totally disabled when all of those chemicals are flowing. So your judgment is impaired and you're ready to just keep leaning into what feels amazing. And when you're away from this person, you start to feel really anxious because oxytocin makes you feel like you need to be close together, in close proximity. So there's the U-Haul effect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it makes so much sense. It makes so much sense. So what would dating advice be for a woman who finds herself? You go on a first date, you guys kiss and all those sparks happen and suddenly it's like this is it, this is it, yeah slow your roll, slow down, notice what it's what you're feeling.
Speaker 2:What is it like being in the presence of this person? You're noticing all of this excitement, the butterflies in your stomach. You feel a little nauseous. You're wanting to spend every moment with them. It's Friday, you're on your first day, and you're already talking about seeing them tomorrow morning, on Saturday and then on Saturday you're hanging out with them and you want to hang out with them on set, like slow, just slow down. Create some space so that you can both breathe and you leave each other at the height. You don't want to stay in exhaust. That, right, it's how you put the fire out. The excitement goes out If you just lean into that and make poor choices, use poor judgment.
Speaker 2:You want to override that and control yourself. Even though you're feeling all that intensity and you feel like you're falling in love. You got to recognize it's a chemical reaction. It's not love. What you can celebrate is that wow, I'm attracted to this person. My body's alive and I want to keep getting to know this person and I'm going to be the adult that's getting to know this person and I'm going to be the adult that's driving my system right now and I'm going to say you know what? It's Friday. I would love to see you again. Let's get together next week. Push it out and just sit with those feelings. Observe what it feels like somatically in your body and what your mind is telling you. And what your mind is telling you doesn't mean you have to act on it.
Speaker 1:Right, because also, love is something that comes from getting to know someone and seeing the kind of person they are and going oh, you're a beautiful person, you're kind to me, you know, over time we've done these things and you've treated me with respect and you've made me feel secure, and you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:That's what love is True love is born out of, and it takes time. So you want to hang in there through limerence right Six to eight months. During that period you have a lot of those chemicals flowing. As time goes on they taper off. But we're also in this phase of like peacock effect. We are presenting ourselves as best as we can. We're managing our less flattering parts of our personality, kind of our more rough edges. We all have them and you can only hide that or pretend for so long. So you want to be in the relationship long enough to be able to see our less flattering sides and then to determine can I handle it? Okay, Now I see that this person will stonewall me for 24 hours when I show that I have some emotion.
Speaker 2:That's negative. I bring up a difficult topic. Yeah, how do I feel about that? How are they reacting to the fact that I'm noticing this and are they willing to? Can they self-reflect? Are they willing to take some accountability? Like, what are we dealing with here? Is this something that I could see long-term? Some accountability Like what are we dealing with here? Is this something that I could see long-term? Because behavioral change we can change, but it takes work, a lot of effort, and you can't change anybody. They have to want it for themselves. And that's where we make a mistake time and again. We think we can change people. If we love them unconditionally, their behavior is somehow going to change. That's a misnomer, misconception.
Speaker 1:Right, and if you're choosing to get into a relationship with someone, that means you're choosing to be in relationship with them as they are in this moment, without the agreement that anything will change, and so that's why you've got to look for like the little things that you see. Like, for instance, a great one is you have a conflict and they leave you like hanging in the middle of because they can't Abandoned, they abandon you.
Speaker 1:I'm telling you the first time they abandon you. If it's early on, and well, maybe if ever. Early on, and well, maybe if ever. That is not something that takes a short time for someone to stop doing right Learning to stick it out.
Speaker 2:Well, they get hijacked, right. They get so triggered, their nervous system gets completely dysregulated and they're overloaded and they can't pull themselves back together enough to even just say I'm overloaded, overwhelmed. Let's come back to this in two hours. They can't, they just get hijacked. They got work to do. So you got to ask yourself can I handle this? And it depends on what you have experienced in your life and how much work you've done. If you're a securely attached person, that may not really dysregulate you. You may be like you know what. I see what's happening here and I feel grounded still. And let's see, you know this doesn't. If it doesn't dysregulate you, you might be willing to be continue to be curious. It really is so individual. There's not a right or wrong. It's really about checking in with your system and seeing what feels good to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's a hard no for me, buddy.
Speaker 2:I mean nope.
Speaker 1:I'm like, I know, but I think you're right, Like for me. I think for me it's like, for the first time in my life I know what regulation feels like and I love it so much that I'm just like and I'm the best partner I can be from this place and you know obviously little dips and being, you know, but I know the minute that I'm in a connection with someone that's swinging me all over the place, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But, annette, this comes from your own experiences in relationship, like life experience, you realize, wow, I finally have. I know what it's like to be in relationship with someone where my nervous system is calm and you just you recognize the value. So you're not willing to tolerate anything less than that now. But you got to have the experiences. We got to be out there tumbling and grappling and experience this stuff to know what what works for us and what doesn't.
Speaker 1:Right now, so the message here is just you know, dating women women just like dating men and people of any gender you're going to be tumbling, You're going to have to understand that. It's going to be difficult in other ways, and I know that if you are newly out it can be rough to go out and experience some of that with women. And then suddenly you're like is it me, Is it because something's wrong with me? Am I not queer enough, or am I doing queer the wrong way, or do I need to shave half my head to fix it, because then I'll look more queer? I mean, these are things I hear women say all of the time. Right, how do I be more queer? So I do it right? And then I have this experience dating women that I've heard about.
Speaker 2:Right, heard about, right? I want to just go back to another example of what it kind of can be tough in the we'll. Just we're talking about lesbians right now. What's tough is also, I think, people who come out later in life or just in general, realizing that wait a minute, women, queer women, don't take such good care of themselves, and this is. It might be offensive to some people. This comes up, for example, like a client would say to me I'm attracted to really feminine women that don't appear gay and that take really good care of themselves. Maybe they're like doing Botox and they, you know, do the things they color their hair and they, you know they're really into fitness. Why am I not finding that? Why does it feel like that's a unicorn in the LGBTQ community plus community Cause cause it is.
Speaker 1:That's a fact. The L word lied to us. The L word lied.
Speaker 2:Yes, they're more about body acceptance.
Speaker 1:They're more about body acceptance, being natural. So you're going to see more of that just less hair dyeing, less keratin, less Botox, all of it. Maybe you won't. Being someone that dates all genders and being in open relationships for quite a bit of time meaning I'd be dating more than one person at a time, oftentimes a man and a woman or people of different genders One of the struggles I have personally found is around grooming down there. Found is around grooming down there. Guys really like it, like next to no hair, maybe, maybe a little little something. Little strip Queer women, I mean, they won't trust you if you don't have a full bush sometimes, right, Many of us have lasered it off.
Speaker 2:We're shit out of luck.
Speaker 1:You know where I'm going with this. So in my last relationship that I was in, and the last time I was really truly like in a monogamous place was with this dude who didn't like any hair, and finally I was like if you'd, and also I'm like if you. And also I'm going to be clear, I prefer less to none, at least around my labia, because I get more sensation and I. It just feels good. But I was like, okay, if you don't like it, then you can pay to have it, because I'm getting bumps. You can pay for the laser job he did. He's gone. Now I go out on a date with a woman and I'm like, oh fuck, you know, I just have, and I find myself actually nervous about that part of it. You're gonna know, you're gonna know clearly, like, yeah, that you know, I don't know. So. And then also, on the other hand, I'm like, hey, you could like trim a little down here. I'm like weed whacking to find your clit.
Speaker 2:Or you're swallowing like a mouthful of hair. It's no fun it is no fun so that is true, yes, so that's another fact.
Speaker 2:Just grooming, just more natural. Hairy legs, hairy armpits Not everyone, we're not going to generalize, but yeah, there's just more of a natural approach and I think they don't, you know. Going back to misogyny and the patriarchy, I think there's a you know wanting to backlash against that and a lot of, you know, heterosexual women feel pressure to really maintain their youthful bodies and faces and it's expensive and it's invasive and I think that many women in the queer community are kind of against that idea.
Speaker 1:Right, right, yeah. And it's hard when you're like I enjoy all of that stuff for myself. And then I've had moments where I'm like, am I going to have to like undo it to be accepted in the queer community? And then I was finally like fuck, no, I'm going to be you, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just be you, and there will be women that appreciate you. And there will be plenty of women too that feel threatened by it and may question well, how, annette, really, how gay are you, how bi are you? This comes up a lot too. It's like are you going to just get bored with me and decide you're bored with my plumbing and then jump ship and go find a guy because you want a dick?
Speaker 1:Can we talk about the big thing.
Speaker 1:So before we sign out, we have to talk about the thing that's going on in the sapphic community right now with two very big I would say big sapphic celebrities, one being Jojo Siwa and the other being Fletcher and Fletcher is a hot topic right now because she really became sort of a sound, a musical sound, for a lot of the queer women and LGBTQ community.
Speaker 1:She recently disappeared from everything social media for six months, only to come out in, I think, the last week and drop a song announcing that she and she had never said she was a lesbian, but definitely had a lot of songs around that, but that she apparently six months ago, it sounds like fell in love with a man, kissed a man and she's been in hiding because she's been afraid of what will happen to her whole community.
Speaker 1:Jojo Siwa, of course, is a much younger I think she's only like in her early 20s who also was sort of a queer icon, though not well-treated or well-liked, who also met a man. And there's just so much angry discourse around this in the sapphic and queer community and I guess from my and people saying this was not the time for Fletcher to come out, and from my and people saying this was not the time for Fletcher to come out, and from my perspective as a bi woman, I'm like for me it almost seems perfect because I think in the queer community we start, we need to start talking about what queer looks like, and sometimes queer looks like a woman with a man who has no home base anymore, because, exactly, yes, I love that you said that, because you know what it's not static, it can be fluid and you can be queer and be in a heterosexual relationship.
Speaker 2:You know, and you could, you could be a lesbian. You know you could identify as a lesbian for a certain number of years and then find yourself in a relationship with a cis hetero guy and still be queer. So I just I think it's important to remember that and, like, people need to be true to themselves and especially if they're a public figure, they can't live in the spotlight and lie about who they are. They gotta be, they gotta be real, spotlight and lie about who they are. They got to be real and we need to respect them for doing that in the best way that they can. I think Living in hiding is toxic, it's inauthentic.
Speaker 1:And how were these two women well, especially Fletcher supposed to make it through pride? Basically, what people were saying is you needed to stay in the closet as a queer woman who had met a man through pride and wait to let us know till after, because this is our month, but it's her month, too right, and she is in the closet. She's afraid of you, her community, and I'm like this is the time we need to be having those conversations, Because if you look at queer pan women, bi women, non-lesbian, identifying women, we are at a higher rate of sexual assault, suicide, all of these things, depression. Because of this exact dynamic, we have no home.
Speaker 2:Totally so, and it perpetuates the problem. I think we need to do our best to be visible and real, authentic and honest and be vulnerable. In doing that, like look, this is who I am, you're my fans and I want to be honest with you. I'm still queer. Just because I'm in a heterosexual relationship doesn't mean my queerness went away, like we need to model that, that it's okay. It's okay to be sexually fluid.
Speaker 2:It is there's nothing wrong with it, yeah, so it's just there needs to be some learning education and we can't hide it, just perpetuates it, yeah, and Pride Month is the best time for that.
Speaker 1:Another comment that is very common, about Fletcher coming out and sharing. I kissed a boy and I liked it is on her appearance, because now they're saying, well, and now she's wearing flowy clothes and looking more feminine, and what is that all about? And I'm like also, you can look like that and be queer. This is a great lesson and we should be able to be fluid, like you said, sometimes you're wearing your combat boots and you're like, you know, tight tank top and sometimes you're high femme and I feel so much stress about what I wear and look like when I go out to queer events because of that very thing. And you know what they're saying is oh, fletcher needs to look like this, but now she's even looking like what? Straight feminine, what is that even? Right, right.
Speaker 2:Right, and then they criticize you and judge you because of it. Or they feel or the gay community feels betrayed, like we just lost one. It or they feel, or the gay community feels betrayed, like we just lost one right. That person was on our team and now you know. So it's just like we have to shift that way of thinking and recognize that this is not it's. It's not coming from a place of scarcity and coming from a place of abundance. This is somebody that's part of our community and they're happy in a relationship. Let's celebrate them. There's a queer person that can be celebrated. That demonstrates that they can be in relationship with somebody that's the same gender and also of the opposite gender Great.
Speaker 1:Right and also, I think, as part of the dating scenario, can you speak to the idea you mentioned before of a bi woman or a queer woman getting sick of a certain plumbing and looking for another human Because, as a bi woman, I'm like A gross B? That's not how it works. If I choose to date someone of a different gender, it's not about the plumbing, it's about how I'm being treated Like. If you want to keep me, treat me well. Absolutely has nothing. It's about how I'm being treated Like. If you want to keep me, treat me well.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It's an excuse. When somebody says, well, you know they left me because you know I don't have the right plumbing, that's an excuse. That is an opportunity for us to slow down and really look at what happened. And oftentimes it's, you know, it's emotional, it's behavioral. There's a disconnect in the relationship. It wasn't working. They didn't leave because of your genitalia. You can offer pleasure, you know, if you like penetration, plenty of dildos, plenty you can finger. I mean, I can go on and on. It's not about plumbing. So let's just be real with ourselves. It's not about plumbing, be nice.
Speaker 1:No, I think that you know dating as a queer person, but specifically as a queer woman, lesbian woman. It's complicated and it's difficult and we are dealing when we're dealing with women, especially women who are not heterosexual, and not to dismiss the trauma heterosexual women also have had. But this population we are all now you've got this population of people who have been traumatized in lots of different ways, trying to come together and create beautiful relationships, and I think it's important for us to acknowledge the complexities and difficulty with that instead of just promoting it. As a women are better, they'll treat you better.
Speaker 2:That's not helping anybody, no no, I agree with you and I just this conversation is so important. I think we need to keep having these conversations and, no matter how scary it is, to be real and and step into that. You know, honesty, radical honesty. It's the way we've got to go, because the needle has to keep moving in the right direction.
Speaker 1:That's right Now. Before we wrap up, can you give my listeners just a couple of tips as they head into pride looking for their next big queer love?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, Don't be afraid to take risks. Get out there, be bold. If you see somebody that catches your eye, go over, introduce yourself and just say I just noticed you and I had to come over and introduce myself. I have no idea if you're queer, I have no idea if you're single. My name's Frankie, just wanted to say hi, strike up a conversation. We need it now more than ever. In-person interactions Definitely that. Also, during Pride Month, plan to do three events queer events Get out there in person. We have events. My company offers events all over the country virtual and in person. Singles events oh perfect.
Speaker 1:Get it.
Speaker 2:Get out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so let them know where to find you. Now is their chance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, littlegaybookcom. We, you know, we serve the LGBTQ plus community. We have events, singles events, we have matchmaking, we have coaching programs. We have, I mean, a plethora, so many different ways that we can support you in having you know, in finding amazing partners and then maintaining those relationships.
Speaker 1:I love it. So check her out, guys. This is Pride Month. Love is abundant Abundance. That's what we're talking about and thinking about here. More and more people are coming out as bi queer pan every day and there's a lot of opportunity out there to find love. So go show your pride. And just remember it's not all easy. It's not all unicorns and rainbows, but a lot of it is.
Speaker 1:So thank you so much for joining me for this conversation today. Thank you, Annette. All right, and to my listeners. Until next time, I'll see you in the locker room. Cheers.