Fisting, Safety, & Surrender: The Sex She Has To Trust You To Have

You’ve heard the jokes. Seen it in porn. Maybe even whispered about it with a friend.
 But fisting—when done right—isn’t about shock. It’s about trust, surrender, and full-body pleasure that goes way deeper than you think.

In this episode, I’m joined by sex therapist Chelsea Newton, and we’re diving into the truth about vaginal fisting:
What it really feels like, why it’s healing for so many women and queer folks, and how to explore it safely—with confidence, consent, and a whole lot of lube.

We cover:

🔥 Why it’s not “too much”
 🧠 The emotional + healing side of deep penetration
 🌶️ Cervical and full-body orgasms
 💬 How to start—slowly, safely, and with trust

You Can Find Chelsea at : https://www.phasesofthemindtherapy.com/about

Watch my full how-to video here: https://youtu.be/JsoeQLXBDjs

You can find my spicy site here. https://talksexwithannette.com/talk-sex-with-me/

My spicy OF handle is @talksexwithannette
My free spicy handle is @annettetalkssex

Subscribe to my e-newsletter: https://she-explores-life.ck.page/e9760c390c

Ask a question, Leave a Comment: https://www.speakpipe.com/LockerRoomTalkPodcast

My substack: https://talksexwithannette.substack.com/

Use code EXPLORES15 for 15% off all Womanizer Products at Womanizer.com.

Get 30% Off Sex Toys & Lube with code EXPLORES30
at thethruster.com: https://bit.ly/3Xsj5wY

Get 15% Off The Life Saving, Erection Enhancing Tech Cockring By Firmtech with my code ANNETTE15 at: https://myfirmtech.com/annettebenedetti

Get 15% Off The Life Saving, Erection Enhancing Tech Cockring By Firmtech with my code ANNETTE15 at: https://myfirmtech.com/annettebenedetti

Get your intimacy questions answered, enjoy erotic audio readings and more.
https://talksexwithannette.com/talk-sex-with-me/

Chapters

• 0:00 Introducing Fisting: The Misunderstood Sex Act
• 6:14 What Is Fisting Really?
• 11:54 Debunking Myths About Fisting
• 20:21 The Pleasure Science of Fisting
• 30:54 Emotional and Spiritual Dimensions
• 38:17 Practical How-To Guide
• 52:02 Safety, Aftercare, and Communication
• 59:52 The Healing Power of Fisting
• 1:08:19 What To Do When You're Inside

Transcript

Speaker 2: 1:03

Do the sex pleasure and desire Around here. Nothing's off limits. These are the kinds of conversations we save for our boldest group chats, our most trusted friends and, of course, the women's locker room. Think raw, honest and sometimes unapologetically raunchy. If you've been here from the beginning, thank you, and if you're new, welcome to my podcast. Where desire meets disruption and pleasure becomes power. Now let's talk about sex Cheers. Today's Talk Sex with Annette.

Speaker 2: 1:39

Topic is fisting, the most intimate sex act you've probably been too afraid to ask about. Let's talk about the sex act. Most people are too nervous to try, but can't stop thinking about it's intense, it's intimate. It's not what you think we're talking about fisting. You've probably seen it joked about in porn, whispered about in kink spaces or written off as too much. But here's the truth. Fisting done right isn't about shock. It's about trust, surrender and a kind of pleasure that stretches way beyond the physical. If you've ever thought that's too extreme, or I can never take that, or wait, why would someone even want a whole hand inside of them? You're not alone. But you might be missing out on one of the most connected, expansive and, yes, mind-blowingly hot experiences sex has to offer. And today we're not just talking about it. We're giving you a how-to that you never got in sex ahead.

Speaker 2: 2:41

I'm joined by Chelsea Newton, a queer, bisexual sex therapist and a clinical social worker based in Denver who helps people explore kink, pleasure and sexual identity without shame. She's warm, smart, no bullshit, and she gets why this kind of sex deserves more than a punchline. So if you're curious, turned on or just ready to finally understand what all the deep diving fuss is about, let's slide in. But before we do, I want to remind you you can find me over on OnlyFans, where I am sharing my sex and intimacy how-tos, demonstrations, audio-guided self-pleasure meditations and so much more to help you start having better sex and intimacy Tonight. You can also find me over on Substack doing a lot of the same, and you can find me there with a handle at TalkSexWithAnnette. You can also scroll down to the links in this episode and you're going to find links to everywhere you want to find me below. So now I'm going to hand the mic over to Chelsea. Chelsea, can you tell my listeners a little bit more about you before we slide into fisting?

Speaker 1: 3:49

Chelsea, can you tell my listeners a little bit more about you before we slide into fisting? Yes, annette, thank you so much for having me back. This was so much fun. You really nailed it right. Like I'm a queer, bisexual sex therapist who absolutely loves nothing more than talking about the thing that nobody else wants to talk about, and I was really shocked when you told me that nobody wants to do the fisting episode. I'm like, oh, I would love to talk about that. I support clients who don't know who to talk to about the thing that they're freaking out about. They don't have anybody else that they can talk to about it. They come to me, and so I'm really, really excited today to talk about fisting, and I'm sure you know who knows what else will come up. But thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 2: 4:31

Thank you for doing this. This is an episode I've been wanting to do for a long time, and my longtime dedicated listeners have definitely heard me talk about my experiences fisting. At least a little bit. I kind of throw it in there, but I haven't had an opportunity to dive into it, and that is exactly what we're going to do today, folks. So there is no better thing to have over coffee in the morning than a conversation about fisting. So let's do it and let's talk about fisting. Cheers, cheers, let's go. So let's start with the most obvious question what exactly is fisting?

Speaker 1: 5:31

hopefully. Yes, I think that people, when you say that or when they hear fisting, they think about sort of uh, like a closed fist punch, if you will, and the reality is is that it really doesn't have to be that and it really shouldn't be that. Unless you are really skilled in extreme BDSM, you know fist fucking, which is something different than I think. What we're really talking about today. Fisting is really less of a closed punched fist and more about, like I like to call it, like the shadow puppet right or like reaching into a Pringles can is another way that I like to talk about that. Reaching into a Pringles can is another way that I like to talk about.

Speaker 2: 6:09

That. That's incredible. This is funny because I had a little bit of a debate going with a woman friend interest of mine. We're talking about fisting and we have an ongoing debate that I was telling her today you were going to help put to rest for us and she said that you would probably agree that we were both right. But you know that she was also right and I'm like you're wrong. I said fisting was the punch fist and she's like well, but she did the four finger shadow puppet. I'm like okay, but for it to be fisting, I think the fifth finger has to be involved. Oh, I lose, don't I?

Speaker 1: 6:56

So so is the question like if we don't have all five in, is it truly fisting? Yes, oh, this is so controversial. You know what, though, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to answer. I'm not going to do the therapist-like non-answer answer. I'm going to answer. If we're really talking about fisting, right, we're talking about losing our hands for digital sex. We are talking about all five digits.

Speaker 2: 7:20

All five.

Speaker 1: 7:20

Okay, it doesn't mean that three or four or almost five can't also be an amazing experience, but if we're really talking about fisting, sort of the way that I think about it is like we're in sort of past the knuckle here and and there's sort of like a hole at the wrist in a way, you know that happened.

Speaker 2: 7:43

that to me is really, I'd say, like captures fisting well, that's the magic of it, right that moment where it's like you're inside and the hand is inside. Now I am going to say to this person, if you might be listening, and to my listeners I just think if the pinky's hanging out, you cannot call that like. You can't like the pinky, a digit can't be hanging out. Now the digit hanging out could be really fun and tickle some spots, but for me like to feel like I've fully fisted somebody. I like want the whole hand in there. I also can own that in this debate I was a little bit wrong because I really I was like fist, is fist meaning like a punch fist, which I have experienced doing to someone else? And I always thought but I hear you, we just got to get. We got to get wrist deep, almost Right.

Speaker 1: 9:10

Yeah, yeah, I think. For it to be fist deep. Yes, that's sort of the difference Again, like if you're just having amazing sex with your hands, like digits, cool, cool, cool, put as many digits as you want, but if we're really talking about Shae Sten, I think we really are talking about it. It could be a punch fest, right, but I think for the majority of people that I work with it in my experiences it's more of the shadow puppet or the same way we would reach into a Pringles scan.

Speaker 2: 9:37

Pringles can, pringles, can. And just the look on your face when you, all right, dip your fingers into the can, making me a little hungry.

Speaker 1: 9:46

It doesn't actually look like this, folks. This is me reaching into the Pringles cans.

Speaker 2: 9:50

For our listeners, not viewers. She's literally reaching fingers into a invisible imaginary Pringles can.

Speaker 1: 9:59

It looks different than that and don't hurt your wrist.

Speaker 2: 10:01

Right, definitely don't hurt your wrist, all right. So now my debate is put to rest. And not only that, listeners, if you don't have a clear view on what we're talking about, I mean, I feel like that explains it. You got to have your five fingers in there. You got to have the knuckles in there. You got to have the knuckles in there. And look, this isn't a competition, right? We are just trying to explain when it crosses over like intense fingering and into fisting. But I want to move on to the myths around fisting and sort of the first impression when people who have not experienced it hear about it. Can we dispel some of the bullshit around the concept of fisting?

Speaker 1: 10:45

oh yes, I mean, I think the obvious is that it's really painful or that it's somehow violent, or that it will ruin quote unquote, ruin your vagina or your anus. I think those are like the three big ones that I think are really common in terms of fisting. So you know, first and foremost, fisting should not be painful. If you are engaging in fisting and you are experiencing pain, that is a really good sign that you need to back off. That is a really good sign that maybe today is a three-digit or a four-digit kind of day and that we're not going to get past those knuckles, and that's okay. Fisting should not hurt. As a matter of fact, no sex should hurt unless you are engaging in some kind of consensual BDSM where you're trying to inflict pain, and that's what we've agreed upon. Blah, blah, blah. Right, but if you are sort of just getting into fisting, it shouldn't be painful, and so we have to take it slow. It can take practice. It does require tons of lube and that is really important, so it shouldn't be painful.

Speaker 2: 12:08

Also, it's not shameful to not be able to take a whole fist. I mean, there can be shame in both directions, right? Shame in enjoying it and shame in not being able to do it, depending on where you are in your own sexual journey and who your lovers and community are. I have been the fister, if you will, given the fisting, many a time in my intimacy journey. I, on the other hand, have never. I was like. After doing it several times I was like maybe this is maybe I should give it a try myself. And I have never been able to do it. It was too painful for me.

Speaker 2: 12:53

It was really exciting up to a point and extremely pleasurable in a way that I had never experienced before. And then it tipped over into like this doesn't feel good, like I can't do this. But I love to give and I like to you know, every once in a while I'm like let's give it a try again and see how far we get. But that's kind of what has happened to me. I do want to talk about the pleasure that it brings. I also want to say up front something we didn't mention is it does not mean you're loose either my experience on this journey, which I would love to share with you and hear about. Whether or not this resonates or if you've heard this before is the first time it happened. I was with a woman and we I mean it literally was a it just slipped in situation like we started having passionate sex. She was definitely like a tiny woman and just as things got heated up and went further and I always like to ask would you like?

Speaker 2: 13:53

more you know, I asked for consent.

Speaker 1: 13:56

Every finger, every step of the way. Oh question like would you like more? Would you like another finger? Would you like more? You know I ask for consent, every finger, every step of the way.

Speaker 2: 14:00

Great question, oh, great question. Would you like more? Would you like another finger? Would you like more? Do you want? You know, I never. And here's a great tip for all of my listeners I don't care what gender you are. It is so sexy too. It's the sexiest thing to ask before any new finger enters, and, and we'll make the mix for it too. That too, I like that. And so we just ended up there.

Speaker 2: 14:21

And that's also where I learned about the sort of ballooning or tenting that happens in a vagina for some women when they get really excited. So when you know you are doing well, that in the vagina, the vaginal canal can actually balloon into what almost the shape of it felt like almost a hot air balloon to me, and that's when the whole thing slipped in, and it was so incredible. I will never forget my first. I will never forget my first. I was like shocked by how hot it was. Like it still takes me back to think about it, you know. And I had no idea Look, I had never heard of it because nobody talks about it. I had seen it in porn, like years ago, and thought what the fuck that looks violent. And here I am engaged in this situation. That's obviously not violent at all. It's like sexy and erotic. And then you know she had an orgasm. And how did I know? Because that ballooned vagina almost broke my little fist.

Speaker 1: 15:23

What is like insane. Has you felt every single earthquake that has happened?

Speaker 2: 15:29

Oh my God, and that's hot Like. Oh, I got hot Just talking. Oh, you know, that's where I'm like. If you want to know if she really came like there is no faking that shit. And it also the beauty of it was that it also taught me about how to read a woman's body, and I think it's part of the reason why I feel so confident in having sex with women is that I've learned those little subtle internal signs that you can feel with your hand. That's why I prefer to use my hands and like toys and stuff like that. But that was my experience. No education, it was literally. It just slipped in and of course, you know she said it was her first time, I think she was lying to me, which is okay, I forgive you.

Speaker 2: 16:15

I still felt special, but you know. And then, moving on into the future situations with women, what has surprised me is how many women actually really love it but are so quiet about it. Nobody, no one's ever asked for it, but you know it's clear when we get to that point that it's something that's desired. So can you talk about that, the, the shame, and then the pleasure that's actually the pleasure potential can we talk about? It's not painful, it's incredibly pleasurable. And why? Where do I start?

Speaker 1: 16:50

in that. So you know, I think there's so much stigma and shame around sex period, so you know there's that right, just baseline. But also I think fisting really is associated I think primarily what I think of fisting, I think of lesbian, that's what I think of but it really is also associated with gay men and really fisting became like known and sort of like I wouldn't say mainstream, but like known, it understood as sort of an act in the 70s with gay men in gay bars and that was sort of like I don't know like the time where like fisting was a thing. There's a famous fisting club from san francisco that was for gay men.

Speaker 1: 18:37

Like fisting has a really like rooted history in gay culture and so I don't know if that's part of it. It also at one time was believed to be part of sort of like, um, this fear around HIV and AIDS and that like fisting, because you're a gay man, caused HIV or AIDS, which of course is not true. But I really feel like that wasn't that long ago and I think some of that stigma still really exists in queer spaces, regardless of your gender, and I think that's kind of how fisting has gotten, sort of like a bad rap, if you will think that that kind of how fisting has gotten sort of like a bad rap, if you will, right, I you know.

Speaker 2: 19:26

It's so funny that you bring that up because as a queer woman, I almost never think about it as anal fisting. That's not something I have experience with and I don't think of it. I don't associate it with gay men. So, yeah, my whole kind of world just shifted there. I really think of it as, like you said, as a woman on woman thing, I also think that a lot of the shame and stigma for women comes from you know the sort of thing that horrible men like to sling about women as being too loose, being too loose and being you know that whole thing around a big, whatever Grand Canyon.

Speaker 2: 20:07

You know whatever insult they like to throw out about Gosh, extra wide, extra wide. What would they say, mike, maybe you're just extra small buddy, but I'd like to talk about the pleasure part. I mean, I'm sure many people listening to this are like you're full of bullshit. That's got to hurt, it's got to be painful, there's got to be pain involved. Can we talk about the anatomy of it and why there's so much pleasure in fisting? And I'm talking about fisting women right now.

Speaker 2: 20:33

That's what I want to do, because that's what I'm excited about about but the structures, and because I do think and even though I never have I've never had someone make a fist deep in me I do know that oftentimes, when I've given it a good go, there is this deeper like sensation that you feel and I think that's the explosiveness of it, and I do know that anatomy and structure is behind it. So can you talk about why fisting would be so incredibly pleasureful for a woman who is able to achieve that act?

Speaker 1: 21:10

Yes, for the record, you know, we kind of talked about this with the men and we're talking about, like, this idea of loose and whatever it's like the vagina is a muscle and can literally birth a baby. Okay, a whole baby can come through the vagina, okay. So when we think about a fist, right, it can sound big or overwhelming potentially, but the vagina is really built to be able to handle that, really okay, like, your vagina is going to be okay. When we stretch our calf muscles right, they don't become looser, right. So when we stretch our vagina it doesn't become looser. It's just like not how it works. And so I think when we're talking about this thing, you're right there is this sort of like penting, or I'm going to say swelling, because that makes it sound like we're really inflamed or something, but there's a spaciousness that happens when somebody is a mess, like dying. What did I say?

Speaker 2: 22:21

It is so hot. It's so hot Like, why did nobody talk about it? I like to call it tinting or ballooning, because I feel like sometimes it feels like a balloon and no one told me about that ever. I don't even know if I do it, but I can feel it. I can, like I always know if I'm doing it right with any woman, because I'll start to feel that expansion happening and if there is something that will, like, make me energetically come, that is it.

Speaker 1: 22:47

It's really hot, yes, and again. It's like the vagina is able to get really big, and so if there's a lot of arousal, it can get really big and again. So if there's a lot of arousal, it can get really big and again. If it doesn't for you, that's okay, and what you're describing in that, I think, is so many people's experience with fisting. As the fister there becomes this spaciousness that exists. That is really different feeling than maybe when you're starting out and you've got one or two digit in. It's not the same sensation at all.

Speaker 2: 23:25

I am so, I feel so blessed to have been hashtag, blessed to have been a fister, the giver of the fist, thankful for these tiny hands. All right, so I'm sorry I interrupted you. Go ahead, we are now fisties.

Speaker 1: 23:41

That's it. We are, we are in, we're in in the hot air balloon, we are, you know, and then I think also too, like there's just so many nerve endings, as you know, especially with our clitoris. But the clitoris, this is really interesting too, right. The clitoris people think of well, some people think of as this, like little external button. Okay, clitoris is not just a little external button. That is really selling it short when we think about sort of this like 3D model of the clitoris which you can easily Google and find. I sometimes will just go like this to show people it's like my head is like the external button, and then this is what you don't see oh, I like that we stand up and show that.

Speaker 2: 24:21

Okay, guys, you gotta go to youtube because this is great out of youtube. So your face, your face is the. Is the clit external being like the?

Speaker 1: 24:30

clittering hood here. Right, it would come up. My case is like the external case and clit. But then there's these bura or legs that are on the inside right I like that Also, are really amazing and they expand.

Speaker 2: 24:48

I didn't know that. All right, so they expand outwards. So I'm kind of doing the thing you did. So if you're my listeners, you can run over to YouTube and just check out our ridiculous visual. My listeners, you can run over to YouTube and just check out our ridiculous visual. But it works. It works All right.

Speaker 1: 25:05

So if my nose is the bean and my arms are the clitoral legs. Think of them running within, sort of the labia majora and labia minora, sort of like making that shape. Okay, yeah, okay, and they're like the equivalent of, like erectile tissue, right, right, like which blood flow they're expanding.

Speaker 2: 25:24

Right. And so when we're really like in there, it's like those legs, those clitoris, the whole, the internal part of it, which is what a lot of people fail to right and the vagina itself also has nerve endings, right.

Speaker 1: 26:07

So these strong sort of like we're talking about, like this earthquake, this like pulsing of gripping of right, like that's a really strong vaginal orgasm and so all of these different parts are working together to create what can be this really intense and explosive orgasm. It may be multiple types of orgasms that are happening at once, and I think for most people who are being schisted, that is what is happening. For them, it's not just the vaginal, it's not just the clitoral, it's like everything is on, Right, I mean, I think that's important to point out.

Speaker 2: 26:47

We talk about the clitoris a lot, and even the internal clitoris, and let's be clear that the internal arms are kind of new news in terms of my lifespan, right, and people learning about it. But outside of that the clitoris, internal, like the whole thing there's also other erogenous zones within the vaginal canal that can create incredible pleasure. Right, and my understanding correct me if I'm wrong a lot of this is still just being studied. The fact is science, medical science has not studied women's pleasure throughout the year, so it's just starting to happen and now they're just like well, we know that this lights up. We don't exactly know why, but we think it's. You know now, apparently our pleasure matters, but there are.

Speaker 2: 27:43

I've talked a lot about the A spot. There's the O or P spot that are deeper inside the vaginal canal. I've found mine. All of these are being lit up and places that perhaps you've never even felt before. Also, I think when you're being fisted or you have I don't know when I've gotten at least four fingers in me you feel like there's something on the wall. There's a pleasure spot on the back wall that is shared with the anus. That's super pleasurable too. Even though women don't have a prostate, you can still experience incredible intense pleasure on that side of your vaginal canal, and when you have a fist in you, all of it's getting contact at once Like a symphony.

Speaker 1: 28:36

I like to think of it as like a symphony, a symphony of pleasure. It's not just like this note or that note or a combination of like two notes, it's really like all the notes, like it's really like a full symphony of pleasure.

Speaker 2: 28:51

Right, so it's hard girls individuals and if it's something you've experienced and you've had explosive orgasms around it, and then you feel shame because you're like oh, what does that mean about me? It means you're a goddess right all it means?

Speaker 1: 29:13

it means you're a goddess Right. That's all it means. It means you had great sex.

Speaker 2: 29:15

Congratulations, exactly, exactly. You know I want to give my listeners, before we leave, some basic how-tos. To get started, I'm also going to be putting up a full in-depth instructional that will be tagged in this, that you can use to learn before you dive in. I did not get the opportunity to get the step-by-step.

Speaker 2: 29:40

You just found yourself there. I just found me, thank God. Thank God, but for most people I would have loved to have had some guidance ahead of time. So you are going to get plenty of that from me. But before we dive into that part, I do want to talk about the emotional side of, and we are going to be speaking as vulva owners, vagina owners, pussy owners, because that's what Chelsea and I know I welcome. If there is a male-bodied individual out there who wants to come on and talk about anal fisting with me, I'd love that angle.

Speaker 1: 30:21

I really think we should find that person. If you're listening, please, please, please, let us know.

Speaker 2: 30:25

We want to know everything we want to hear, it all we want to understand. But I think, for the integrity of this conversation, we're going to be talking about what? As someone with a vagina, what is experienced emotionally? I mean, this can be almost a erotically life-changing experience. I know that it was for me as a giver, right, but I also know that there's a huge can be a huge impact to the receiver. And can you speak to that a little bit? How can a fisting experience be transformative?

Speaker 1: 31:03

Not transformative is a word that comes to mind Spiritual, almost like a portal, like an opening right, we're talking about this like spaciousness, this expansiveness.

Speaker 1: 31:13

I think that's something that I've heard from a lot of folks is that it's almost like this spiritual experience for them where it's like I didn't even know that I could feel the way that I felt in that way.

Speaker 1: 31:27

But also, you know, fisting is such a vulnerable act. There's so much trust that has to be there, I think, a lot of times For folks who are planning for, preparing for and getting ready for really putting their fist inside somebody. I know you're saying like yeah, it happened for me and I like slipped in and you know, maybe it like was that profound, although in some ways it sounds like it really was. But I also think that for folks who are sort of intentionally entering this first time fisting, I think that there is a lot of communication and trust that happens in that process. I mean, I think anytime we're having sex or intimacy, that trusted communication is huge. And so you know, really, like you were saying before, a great question to ask is would you like another finger? Would you like more? Can I have more lube please? You know all of those pieces is really going to sort of enhance that sense of connection.

Speaker 1: 32:35

Also, if you can surrender, there's this huge act of surrender that I think that happens for the person who is receding. If you are being fisted and you're thinking a lot about being fisted, it's probably not going to work out that well. We can get super in our heads about it. We can be like, oh my gosh, like what is going on, like I don't know if I can handle this. Not to say that you shouldn't consider those things like keep in touch with yourself, but if you can sort of surrender and relax into this moment and really allow yourself to be in your body and noticing what is feeling good and pleasurable. It's such a shift from being here in the mental gymnastics, as I like to call it, and really just being present in your body with your partner. That is such a game changer.

Speaker 2: 33:34

Right, I mean there are things that have to happen on both sides for it to be a really successful experience and the transformative nature of it really is a getting out of the mind and in into your, your body, and just surrendering to the experience. Right, it takes kind of a step that I mean a lot of us just struggle in in. I was gonna say, well, vanilla sex or the pnv, the typical sex we were taught we were supposed to be having. We struggle in that just to like get out of our heads and not thinking about you know the to do list, or like, ok, what is this person thinking about? Me? And really be in the experience and letting go of the mind and just being and being in connection of the mind and just being and being in connection. And if you can achieve that, especially in this experience, it definitely is going to send you out into something that's very much like and probably the same thing as subspace, right?

Speaker 1: 34:49

Yeah, I think surrender is a really good word. That's the word that just keeps coming to mind.

Speaker 2: 35:29

I hadn't even thought about that, that angle. So I think that's kind of where to start, because this is someone who's got to prepare to receive right and on there. In many ways it's going to be with a lover tonight and perhaps you've talked about trying fisting, which hopefully you are in conversation about this before. Clearly that wasn't my experience. Fortunately, it went really well for everyone involved. But I would suggest having the conversation in advance and making it sexy and getting prepared. Conversation in advance and making it sexy and getting prepared what are some ways in which you can prepare yourself for this and some tips and tricks as it proceeds.

Speaker 1: 36:02

I mean, I think, before you're even in the bed, so to speak. Right, I don't know where you're going to be doing your fisting, but let's just say bed right, before you're even there, before you're even in that sexy situation, before the clothes come off, before we're really getting started. It's really useful, I think, to really check in with yourself around sort of those mental gymnastics. What are the things that are stressing you out? What are the things that are flipping you the fuck out? What are the things that you're most scared of? What are the things that you've maybe talked about ad nauseum and you're just like, oh, my partner does this, I'm going to lose my mind, right. What are those things? And really try to address any of that that you can ahead of time, right? So if there's something that you're really wanting, there's something that you're really not wanting, communicate that in advance. That could be over in advance. That could be over dinner, it could be on your neighborhood walk, it could be while you're hanging out on the couch, before we even get to the point where we're doing it and that one thread the place where we're doing it. Try to relax. Start low and slow.

Speaker 1: 37:10

This is what I tell people low and slow, okay. This is what I tell people low and slow, okay. Like we're working up to five digits plus knuckles. So we're not going to go from a single finger to that in three minutes probably. It's just not going to happen. And so really making sure that we're aroused, making sure that we've got good blood flow, making sure that we have all the lubrication that is needed, and really starting with and progressing up to those five digits plus knuckles in a way that feels good to you I never put a timeline on this because pacing is going to be different for everybody. So again, it's not a competition. You know, it's like if three fingers is what makes it tonight and you were really hoping for all five plus knuckles, that's okay. There will be another opportunity to work toward that, but really trying to remember that you know low and slow is a great place to start.

Speaker 2: 38:11

Right, and starting with that external, you know, like, spend a lot of time outside of the vagina. I like I always like to tell people that I work with to wait for the vagina to invite you, right, Like the vagina will invite you to enter her. If you take time and then learn what the signs are, sometimes that's like lubrication. Even if it's a little bit of lubrication, you know you'll start to feel someone get wet, the vulva get wet. You'll start to feel the external labia puff up. Right, that's another thing. You know that you're doing something right when the external labia start to fill with blood, right, yes, and some wetness. I always hesitate to use wetness as a signal because some women just have lubrication problems. They can be fully aroused but maybe not lubricating a lot, but usually there's a little bit of, you'll feel at least a little bit of lubrication, but a really good indicator is just the filling of the blood externally, right, and and then you know you start like dipping the tip of it. Start with just the tip, folks, of one finger, come on.

Speaker 1: 39:29

Just the tip is a thing, it's true.

Speaker 2: 39:35

Just the tip is the best game ever.

Speaker 1: 39:37

Just the tip is a game to play when you are exploring this thing and everybody's. You know everything is aroused but, like you said, the vagina will invite you in. So if you are, you know, like we've just talked about, you've got sort of that external arousal going on. We've got our lubrication we're working at. You know we're getting to the place of eventually, you know where we're almost in. We're almost maybe even all the way in, or we think we're all the way in right, and you're like, oh my gosh, it's happening Like I'm being fisted or I'm fisting right. The vagina will really invite you in. There is sort of, I think, a distinct moment where we alluded to this before, where there's this sort of like.

Speaker 2: 40:23

Yeah, the sucking up. It's like that would be the sound for my listeners. I feel like I have faith in y'all that you know what that sound is supposed to be. It's where that. It just it like goes in and it's like there you are, um, and that is not something you can force, it is an invitation. It might even kind of like suck you right up in there and be like hello, give it to me, right yes, and I have also talked with folks who feel like scared because they feel like they're stuck.

Speaker 1: 40:56

I've had people who are like, oh my gosh, like no, like really the vagina has such a grip on me I am afraid to pull out also. That is like super.

Speaker 2: 41:07

oh God, this is like the most important tip I'm glad we're talking about that Do not just pull out fast. Don't ever do that. That's not a good idea. So I have had one or two times where the orgasm I was a small bit afraid I might like break a finger Like I was, like that is tight and how strong is that muscle? All but afraid I might like break a finger Like I was like that is tight and how strong is that muscle? You know I have not read it. Like you would think I would have immediately gone and looked up fisting and learned everything I could, but I did not, because I'm a fool sometimes and it can be pretty intense. I don't think it can break your fingers, but I'm not promising anyone anything.

Speaker 1: 41:52

I've never heard of it breaking bones. However, a wrist strain or strain is not actually that uncommon, and so you do want to be really mindful of your positioning as the giver. Once you are really in there, you can even use your free hand to sort of support the wrist if it's feeling really intense, so that you're not experiencing like cramping in the wrist or a lot of discomfort or pain in your own wrist, because that matters too. And for folks who are feeling quote unquote like stuck, like the suction is so tight, you can also use that free hand with lubrication to like put a finger sort of between the wrist and the vagina to kind of break the seal pretty well yeah, yeah, I've definitely.

Speaker 2: 42:43

I always talk about my fucking arm and sometimes it's like I have you know it's, I have a fucking arm and I've definitely had moments where it was like I can't move it, it's so tired. But once the orgasm has happened or you've gotten to the point where it's clearly coming to an end, you need to like very slowly remove. And I suggest what my and I think it's kind of sexy to do, because hopefully you're in conversation with your lover this whole time is to encourage them to relax and take deep breaths, like if they can take deep breaths and like open, and sometimes I'll even ask I'll say, can you open for me and like relax into it, deep breaths, out. If they open their mouth, sometimes the pussy in the mouth, like to do the same thing that can help them sort of come down and release you Do not, do not just pull that hand out. You take a broken wrist before you pull that out fast. You sprain your wrist, you break a finger before you do that.

Speaker 1: 43:51

Like giving me invitee just thinking about it, but I'm glad we're talking about this for listeners. Right, it's like, yes, the start is important, but the finish is also really important. Super.

Speaker 2: 44:04

And once you are out, something I really like to do like a grounding move is just cut my hands over the vulva and just like give kind of like firm pressure so the body can settle and the nerves can feel that sort of grounding. Aftercare is super important after an experience like this and as the giver, yes, I think you need some aftercare too, because it is super intense, but I am willing to step out of you know, maybe what people would say is the correct thing to say here. I still think the priority is the receiver in that situation, regardless of what the giver's needs are Like, you need to make sure the receiver is fine and where they need to be before tending to your own needs, if you will.

Speaker 1: 44:53

You really want to check on that. You want to know what's going on. What do they need to be before tending to your own needs? If you will, you really want to check on that. You want to know what's going on. What do they need, you know? A weighted blanket is another thing. I love this like sort of putting that pressure on directly to the vulva. But then even having like a weighted blanket or something else that can go over the body, I think can also be really sort of grounding and calming for the receiver as their sort of I don't want to say recovering friend, but really more like luxuriating in sort of the aftermath or the after feels of this experience. And so for some people they may really need that space and time. For other people they might want you right there up on them. It really depends. So really making sure that in that aftercare you're still communicating. What do they need to feel supported in that moment.

Speaker 2: 45:49

I think that's part of the eroticism of it too.

Speaker 2: 45:52

As the giver, it feels like a very powerful position to be in, but one where, like when someone surrenders to you in that way, it's like it's this.

Speaker 2: 46:20

It is a very intense and unique special experience and one that, for me, really enhanced my sexual confidence and, like I don't know I don't even know how to encapsulate what that feeling is of being the one who has given that kind of pleasure and and had that kind of control of sorts. Well, ultimately, the person whose body it is has control. They have the yeses and the nos and so on and so forth. But still, as the giver, you are in a very powerful position, very powerful and look, I know that people with penises are always putting themselves in a woman in a sex situation, but I am saying there is something extra special about the fist. Saying there is something extra special about the fist, I'm just saying and it feels like a very powerful and important position to be in, and one where you can either be really good at it and do your job well or not right, and when you do your job well, you're going to feel like a next level, high off of that.

Speaker 1: 47:13

There's like a real strength of accomplishment. I think that comes in some ways right.

Speaker 2: 47:17

Like where is my trophy? Where's my medal? I want to go that is like exciting.

Speaker 1: 47:27

You know that is exciting. You know, I know, um, you know the thing that we haven't really, the other thing we haven't talked about, just from a safety perspective, because, of course, I am a sex educator and I think that this is really important we didn't talk about, like fingernails. We didn't talk about stis, we didn't talk about gloves. We need to talk about all of these things. So you know, if you are, um, just sting, whether you are the giver or receiver, people's hands are dirty. Like hands are gross outside of beautiful festive experiences a lot of the time. Please make sure everything is washed.

Speaker 1: 48:00

Nails are short, trim and smooth.

Speaker 1: 48:03

If you are somebody who has long nails or you have a full set where you have a gel manicure, even these are things to be aware of.

Speaker 1: 48:12

Even with the gel manicure, unless it's pristine, bacteria can be trapped in there, and so, really, being mindful of that A glove is a great way to just sort of like avoid any of the bacterial concerns or any of the sort of scratching concerns that can come with that. If you've got long nails, you can also put like a cotton ball in the tip of the glove for each finger so that, even if you've got long nails something that you can still, you know, do and then the lube that you're using also matters. So if you're using a latex glove, oil-based lubes or like coconut oil, those actually eat away at latex. So if you're using a latex glove and you want to use like a silicone-based or a water-based lube, there's some lubes that I find to be especially nice for fisting that are like silicone and water-based, and so they're not really getting sticky, but they're still super thick. This is really personal preference, so experiment with lube that you like.

Speaker 2: 50:27

This is really personal preference, so experiment with lube that you like, but just keep in mind, if you are using latex, that those oil-based lubes can eat away at that, and so I would stay away from those. Excellent, that's excellent advice. Yes, take care of your hands, folks. Yes.

Speaker 1: 50:39

Right, like that's so important, you keep them. And if you have press-ons, take them off. Please, please, please, please. The vagina is a one way. Okay, the vagina is a one way. So really, if something gets quote-unquote, like lost in the vagina, it will find its way out. The anus is is different. Um, things can really get lost in there, and so if you have again like long nails, especially press on, something like that, like I don't think anybody is just staying with press on, but you don't, I don't know. Um, I have a friend who's an er doc who tells me all of the sex-based things that they see come through the er, because they know I'm a sex therapist and you would be amazed at what is in people's bodies. So just keep that in mind Safety first and then, you know, just enjoy.

Speaker 2: 51:23

All right, so I want to close this conversation with talking about the healing aspect of fisting. I know that some people have experienced and I think this is hard for some people to imagine, who are just finding out about fisting, maybe right now while listening to this but how, in your opinion, can it even be a healing experience for somebody?

Speaker 1: 51:51

Oh my gosh. And now Connie goes back to that sort of like portal or spiritual sort of surrender and and spaciousness that we've been talking about. I think there's something so um, the flat book better word like no pun intended. There's something like so deep about this experience we're talking about like a symphony, right, like it's really an intense experience, maybe not in the ways people initially think, but there is this really vulnerable, trusting connection that I think exists within Shisting that is just so enjoyable and can really be such a game changer.

Speaker 2: 52:36

Yeah, I don't know what you would add to that, that I think that if you have this experience and it goes well, which I would hope that it would there are a couple of things it for, especially for women who have experienced trauma and that trauma has led to a fracture in the relationship with self, meaning. Your body no longer trusts you to make decisions for it. I work with a lot of women who have had trauma and can't experience pleasure because their vagina has either numbed out or shut down where it doesn't want to let anything in, has either numbed out or shut down where it doesn't want to let anything in, and I've had to work, help them work, with repairing that distrust and then waking up the pleasure nerve endings. And I think that the thing about getting to the point where you can surrender, like you said, where you can surrender, like you said, to a partner, surrender your body can now trust you enough, your mind, your decisions, enough to open up that wide and connect with another person and let somebody in and let somebody literally reach into your core and strike the symphony, all of those chords at once.

Speaker 2: 54:02

It can be very healing to be able to trust and let go and come back to yourself and connect with another person and have just an incredibly pleasurable, connected experience, and that's the exact opposite, the complete opposite of someone taking away your bodily autonomy and someone causing sexual trauma and not giving you choice and teaching your body to protect itself and to shut down and to like, push people away.

Speaker 2: 54:37

It's the exact opposite. So I think, when I think that that is the way in which, from my perspective especially from this like from the perspective of knowing so many women have experienced sexual trauma that when you get to the point where you're having this experience with someone, even if you don't make it to the full fist, but when you have this experience where you can really like I don't want those of you who never get, you know, get the full five fingers. Like me, I've never had the full five fingers and I don't feel like I'm any less healed than the woman who had my five fingers, less healed than the woman who had my five fingers. But when you get to experience that kind of trust and connection and surrendering, whether from the giver or receiver, end like it is just healing.

Speaker 2: 55:26

It's like wow, this can be like beautiful and intense and next level in a way that I never thought possible, you know.

Speaker 1: 55:35

Yes, yes, yes, yes, and I don't hear you saying this and that, but I do want to just point out to your listeners because I think for folks who've experienced sexual trauma I also do a lot of work with folks who've experienced sexual trauma there is sort of this idea that I often hear and that we see sort of like in our popular culture and in media that, like healing from trauma is sort of this like pinnacle event. Right, it's like this destination we're striving for, and the reality is is that's simply not true, and so I don't want listeners to sort of complete any of this with like, oh, like fisting is like the thing that's gonna make you feel healed from sexual trauma. Again, I'm not hearing you say that that's going to make you feel healed from sexual trauma. Again, I'm not hearing you say that.

Speaker 1: 56:25

But just to be very, very clear, the thing that is going to allow you to heal the sexual trauma is that autonomy of your body, that ability to connect with yourself, the ability to experience and enjoy pleasure, and for some people, fisting can be a really beautiful, impactful and intense profound even way to experience some of that. If you've never experienced fisting, that does not mean that you have not found healing for yourself. It does not mean that whatever act that you enjoy or whatever sexual thing that you find pleasurable isn't also part of that healing. So I just want to be super, super clear about that. There is no sort of like one thing or set of sexual behaviors that deals trauma. It really is about sort of reclaiming and owning your body, your pleasure, what feels good to you and whatever that is go for it.

Speaker 2: 57:22

Yeah, and I'm so glad you pointed that out. Yeah, with any sexual act, there is no checklist to healing, right, everyone's healing is going to look a different way. I think with fisting, the thing that's important, especially for people who have had trauma, to know if this is something you experience it like, it can be really easy for shame than to sort of flood in you know, thinking, oh, I had this trauma and then I did this thing and I felt so much pleasure and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, that all of this is beautiful, all intimacy, when done with consent and like reverence for each other's bodies and especially like what the female body can do. Right, this is a firsthand experience, if you will, of what the female body can do. Sorry, there's so many puns that you can get out of this.

Speaker 2: 58:20

I've tried, it just keeps happening, it just keeps happening and I'm, you know, in the most serious moment too, um, but no, seriously. It is like you get to this reverence for what our bodies can do, especially when they come together in pleasure, like hallelujah, if you will. Any last thing you want to say to the listeners before we wrap this up, about fisting, I mean, I feel like we have, I feel like we've really expressed our passion for this, this act, and I hope it becomes more of a mainstream topic.

Speaker 1: 58:57

This isn'tink right, this is just sex now it's interesting and that I think people do sort of associate this with kink and I think that there are definitely more like extreme, like they think of, like fist bucking, which is like maybe way more intense and like not as that's something we didn't talk about it's like once you're in there, all five digits are in there and like the vagina has really welcomed you and the seal has happened and you're supporting your wrist right. You don't need to do that much. Okay, like we're not, like, uh, we, we don't need to be like. It depends on the person. You don't need to be doing that much. It's not like you're like playing the piano in there, um, you know, it's like, you know you're in there. Maybe some gentle movements of you know gentle, you know twisting side, maybe there is some of that sort of like um, I'm gonna say punching, for lack of better word, but like theory, thrusting, gentle movement, thrust thrusting.

Speaker 2: 59:55

Thank you, I have a tip here I love can.

Speaker 2: 59:58

Can I talk like you're right, we failed we should have talked about what happens inside once you're inside we're like how you get in and how you get out and what happens when inside is pretty fucking important. I think a good tip for that is, um, oftentimes to let the person, the vagina owner, do their own kind of movement or ask them like, would you like? I? I usually do some, like there's like some some light thrusting going on there, like very slow, and then I will ramp it up based on their what they ask for and then also then they can move against you, which gives you a moment to rest, because you're going to need it, trust me, and they can. You'll start to get a feel for how much they want and if they want more movement. And some women really like like the thrusting, like they want you to thrust, and some like just a little bit of movement, that a small movement will hit all the right spots.

Speaker 1: 1:00:59

Some will say do not move, like I will do the moving. You do not move, I will do the moving if I want it. But for some people, just the sensation of the fullness and that expansiveness and can be sort of this grounding experience, like a really full, and some people don't want movement. So that's super important we didn't talk about. I'm so glad that you asked me for final thoughts because I was like wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. We didn't talk about this. Um, communicate with your partner, communicate with the person you know, whoever is involved, making sure that that everybody's on the same page. Don't think that once you get in there, you've got to like, then like, perform even more. It's like you're doing great, you're doing great, you're doing great. Communicate.

Speaker 2: 1:01:44

Exactly, exactly. So now you know how to get in, you know how to get out the two probably most important parts, but then also what to do when you're in there, and that's going to be all about communication and preference and how tired your hand is at that moment and what you need as well. So there's that. I feel like we covered it and, like I said, by the time you listen to this, I am going to have sort of a step-by-step tutorial that I'm going to be linking in the notes of this and if you are on my YouTube channel, it will be linked above as well. You can go and I will clarify all of the steps that we have talked about here so that you can have a little lesson, if you will, in advance, and not go in like I did, completely blind and oblivious to what I was doing.

Speaker 1: 1:02:41

So I need to know. I know we're wrapping up, but I need to know. So you had started this conversation by describing that you are having this sexy connection with somebody, and there should have been this debate. Have we settled?

Speaker 2: 1:02:53

the debate. I mean, I imagine I will spend time debating with her, whose side you landed on, I think. So I'm going to have to clarify what she was saying. She was saying this, but I feel like she left a pinky out. But she was basically like this and I'm like no, this, and I think what you said is they both count as long as we're all the way in right. So I will be debating with her whether she meant all the knuckles were in or not.

Speaker 1: 1:03:29

I sort of think that this depends on the size of the hand right, like if you've got a pretty small hand like this may be pretty like accessible and depending on your partner right or people's preferences. But you know, if we're, if we're talking about a really big hand, we're probably going in more like this, even if while we're inside we're getting more into this kind of position. It's sort of that entry. I think that is really more of like you know the the shadow puppet. That is really more of like you know the shadow puppet For listeners.

Speaker 2: 1:04:00

Let me clarify For listeners. Let me clarify when she was saying it goes in like this, more like this. She was like talking about more of a flat-handed fist. Like it goes you go in with the Pringle fingers, Pringles in the tube fingers, but then as you get in you may curl into more of a fistish, like a finger curled fist, before getting to the full fist Like thumb. There's thumb inside fist and there's thumb outside the knuckles fist. Right. That's a good way to explain it to my listeners.

Speaker 1: 1:04:37

There's also just like this right Whereas like in or out on the front, but there's also just like on the side, because I think going from this to this is not that big a belief, as long as you don't poke with that. It is that big a belief, but you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 1:04:50

We just don't want to poke with the thumb and, as I'm watching you make it looks like we're doing sign language over here. But as I'm watching your fist and my fist, if you have a ring on, you're going to want to take that off. If you're going to fist, nothing that can catch on anything. Well, guys, what I love about these conversations is we know some stuff, we share some stuff, we learn some stuff and then we figure out more stuff we don't know and we want to learn about, and that's what sex and intimacy is about. That's what this journey is about. And even regardless of you know I've got a sex therapist here. I'm a coach. I've been podcasting and having these conversations for four plus years and I am still learning and growing and becoming more curious and there are always new topics, new questions to ask and new things to more curious. And there are always new topics, new questions to ask and new things to find out and hopefully, in the answers, we will expand our mind and acceptance of people and have more orgasms. That's the hope.

Speaker 1: 1:05:51

Yeah, I think that's it.

Speaker 2: 1:05:53

I think we I just think we end there. That's a good place to end. So before we sign off, though, I want you to tell my listeners where they can find out more about you and get in touch with you.

Speaker 1: 1:06:05

Absolutely. You can find me online on my website, wwwphasesofthemindtherapycom. You can also find me on Instagram at phasersofthemindtherapy. It's like phases of the moon, but phases of the mind. Therapy it's like phases of the moon but phases of the mind. I am a self-proclaimed lunatic. I'm obsessed with the moon. So yeah, that's where you can find me.

Speaker 2: 1:06:26

And I will have the link below in the show notes so you can just go down there, click on it. We're going to take you there and you guys, if you have watched this, listen to this and you have questions, and if you don't, I will be shocked. I want you to either head over to my YouTube channel and drop a comment in the comment section of this podcast, shoot me a question at Annette at TalkSexWithAnnettecom, or scroll down and hit my speak pipe, send me a voice message and I am sure Chelsea would come back and answer questions with me. We could just do a Q&A. Happy to do that, it's so much fun.

Speaker 1: 1:07:03

you guys, Please send all your questions. We're happy to answer them.

Speaker 2: 1:07:07

Because this is obviously a topic we both love a lot and we're openly saying that. So you can ask us, we are happy to answer and look, if you are someone who's looking for a cheerleader, a wing woman, if you will, in your own self-pleasure journey, your own intimacy journey with someone else, you can get ahold of me. You can find out more about that on my website, talksexwithanettecom, or, you know, I just told you all the ways to get in touch with me. So until next time, folks, we'll see you in the locker room. Cheers.