Soccer Moms & Slaves: Inside Look at tOuch Kink

I’m kicking off Kinktober with a sit-down interview with Todd "Max" Carey, the producer, director, and editor of tOuch Kink, a provocative documentary that pulls back the curtain on the fascinating world of kink. From suburban soccer moms to fearless Dominatrixes, tOuch Kink explores the diverse lives of people who embrace power, pleasure, and pain, all while focusing on themes like consent and communication. Tune in as we dive deep into the film, kink culture, and the stories that challenge societal norms.

Check out the tOuch Kink trailer here: https://f.io/wjPqn4ma

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Chapters

• 1:07 Exploring Kink
• 9:14 Personal Stories of Kink and Empowerment
• 22:56 Femdom
• 36:08 Kink Communities Across Different Locations
• 40:21 The Evolution of Mainstream Kink
• 46:28 Honest Conversations About Sex and Kink

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:07

Do the sex Think fun, honest and feminist as fuck, and always with the goal of fighting the patriarchy. One female orgasm at a time. Welcome to the locker room. Today's locker Talk and Shots topic is soccer, moms and slaves. A look at Touch Kink. Kinktober's must-watch documentary.

Speaker 1: 1:36

Kinktober Locktober is upon us and, as my longtime listeners know, it's a hot time in the locker room. Over the past three and a half years I have created a suite of episodes that cover everything from male chastity to the praise kink to cock and ball torture, and I will be sending out these episodes to you all month long. You can scroll down and subscribe to my newsletter or scroll down to the notes in this episode and I will be linking them there. But this year I am kicking off Kinktober in a special way. I had the opportunity to view the groundbreaking documentary Touch Kink and, even better, here with me today is the director, producer and editor, max Carey, and we are going to be talking about this film and why you need to watch it and you'll want to, I guarantee it. But a little bit more about the movie.

Speaker 1: 2:33

Touch Kink is a provocative documentary that delves into the hidden world of pleasure, pain and power through the stories of four individuals. Grace, a soccer mom, embarks on a daring journey to awaken her inner dominatrix. I love that. To awaken her inner dominatrix. I love that, while Mistress Evelyn, a British dominatrix, faces backlash from the tabloid press. Meanwhile, robin, a Texas kinkster, embraces life as a devoted slave. And January Seraph, the enigmatic muse, unlocks the secret power of kink for those bold enough to explore it. This film offers a raw, intimate look at the depth of human desire and the transformative power of kink, which is something that we have had many, many, many discussions about here. Max, I would love for you to tell my listeners just a little bit more about you before we start talking about this film.

Speaker 2: 3:28

Sure, I love to travel, I love to explore. When I was young I had the opportunity to start traveling and I never really got to the end of that and I discovered by traveling and immersing yourself in different countries or different communities, there was just so much to learn. And doing a movie about kink was sort of visiting kinky land, which has been one of my favorite countries to visit.

Speaker 1: 3:52

Well, and we're going to talk about that now Folks, you're going to want to listen to this whole episode because if you're already in the world of kink, I think it's going to really resonate with you on a deep, intimate level. With you on a deep, intimate level. If you are curious about kink, well, you may just be ready to dive in by the end of it. And if you feel adverse to the idea of the kink world, my hope is that through this conversation, you will open your mind a little bit and allow yourself to be curious, curious and open to the idea that maybe even you're a little, a little bit, a little bit kinky. So we will talk about that. I am ready. I'm ready to dive into this discussion. I'm ready to hear your story and sort of the behind the scenes situation with how this documentary came about and was produced. So let's talk about kink Cheers.

Speaker 2: 4:58

Let's talk about kink that sounds fun Cheers, kink and coffee.

Speaker 1: 5:05

Kink and coffee.

Speaker 2: 5:07

Kink and coffee Kink and coffee Kink.

Speaker 1: 5:07

And coffee, two of my favorite things. I really want to start with how the concept for this documentary came about, the birth story, if you will.

Speaker 2: 5:22

As I mentioned in my intro, I've had the honor and the luckiness to sort of travel the world and I've always enjoyed having my ideas changed. I've always enjoyed immersing myself in a culture, especially when it surprised me. And I met a lovely dominatrix by the name of January Seraph and you know, being the world traveler I was, I was surprised how surprised I was talking to her. She's very kind, very gentle, very intelligent, and I don't know why, but I had preconceived ideas of what a dominatrix would be. I didn't expect this sort of kindness and this sort of whatever. I expected much of a harshness and I realized, okay, I have some prejudices here, I really need to explore this.

Speaker 2: 6:05

And she talked about the fact that I wasn't alone. That a lot of people kind of you know, because it's such a dramatic thing, they think of them as one dimensional characters and most people don't really know the full, the full richness and beauty of it. So it was her idea to do a documentary and she you know, the toughest thing in this community is getting access, getting people to talk to you and she agreed to vouch for me and introduced me to people and that's how the journey started. It was really me being surprised that I had certain prejudices and then, at the same time, this wonderful opportunity presented where someone who had access and keys to the kingdom was allowing me a visit inside.

Speaker 1: 6:48

So you weren't kinky beforehand?

Speaker 2: 6:51

Well, I've always been kinky. I didn't realize I was kinky until later in life when I read a book called BDSM 101. And they were talking about what it was to be a dominant. I've always just kind of done what I wanted to do, traveled where I wanted to travel and kind of just did my life. Couldn't really figure out why most people were complaining all the time because I was just going and doing what I wanted to do and I've always done that. Then I realized that that was an unusual thing and typically a trait for more dominant people, that they just kind of go do it.

Speaker 2: 7:19

I read a book and realized, oh, you're probably a dominant. I was already practicing ethical kink without realizing it, because I did like more rough stuff in the bed, shall we say, and but I was making sure I had consent and was talking about these things before and wasn't just making assumptions. And then Kent gave me the framework to make that a healthier circle with aftercare and everything else. So I've always I think I've always been hinky. I didn't realize what I was until 20 or 15 years ago, but then I didn't realize what the whole world was, until I started this project. I think I have a better overview of the whole thing now than I would have when I first entered my formerly kinky journey too.

Speaker 1: 8:02

When you embarked on this project, was there a purpose? Did you go into it thinking here's the story I want to tell? Or is that something that developed more clearly over the course of meeting people and interviewing them?

Speaker 2: 8:22

Honestly, the thing I love about documentary work is that you simply get to go to the country and see what happens. I was curious. I can't say I knew how it was going to end. I can't say I knew what was I mean when I didn't know one of the characters, emily, how she was going to, what was going to happen. But I knew it was something I was very curious about. It was a culture that I wanted to visit and I thought it was a culture that I wanted to visit and I thought it was a culture that was largely misunderstood. So I just wanted to shed light and try and be as even you know, there'd been a lot of stuff about how crazy people are. I wanted to try and do something that was more compassionate, more honest. So, no, there was no, no particular end in mind, other than come along with me. I'm going to introduce you to some people I met and here's what's in what happens happens, you know.

Speaker 1: 9:14

So how did you choose who to follow? How did you choose the characters?

Speaker 2: 9:19

Well, I would never tell a filmmaker to ever do this again. But the truth is I kind of interviewed everyone who would talk to me. I interviewed something in the neighborhood of 200 and some odd people at different events, and I hoped that arcs would develop and the idea of, okay, we're here, something happens, and then we learn something. The vast majority of people I interviewed were very interesting, but there was no arc. There was nothing really happened to them over the course of the year, so I didn't end up using them. So it was a sheer, just saying hello to everybody, checking in with everybody and when people had something happen to them, follow up with them again. And then of the people that something had happened to follow up, the ones that there was some sort of conclusion to it, um, again, I wouldn't recommend this approach. Uh, you know, I shot around 600 hours over many years to try and do it. Do it dishonestly. I think it would be easier to tell a story that's already happened than to, you know, start a story and see where it goes.

Speaker 1: 10:19

One more of a comment I'd like to make about the movie is it's beautiful. It's like visually stunning, and I have my own kind of read into that. But I mean you had to have done that with some level of intention. It was just striking To me. It created a beauty around the subject. Is it just the way you create movies, or was there intention with sort of your visual approach to the subject matter?

Speaker 2: 10:53

Well, we live in a visual world where people do tend to look at pretty things a little longer than things that aren't pretty, and we're all very visually sophisticated at this point. So I wanted to sort of make it something that maybe it was pretty enough in the way it was shot and look that you give it a little extra time, because sometimes I get that these things are somewhat uncomfortable for some people and I get that I might need a little bit longer to sort of bring them in. So one of the ways I could bring them in is to make it more visually and audio wise appealing, just to give me an extra 20 seconds before you click and realize oh, wait to, I should get you into the story. So if there was any intention, it was just that it was just to keep the audience engaged long enough that they were hooked, you know.

Speaker 1: 11:36

Out of the four characters that you followed, was there one that really, I guess, moved you or spoke to you or captivated you, and if so, why?

Speaker 2: 11:50

I guess January, maybe because and that's sort of the least developed, because she's more like the background of it, but just because we had such a close relationship and she really wanted this story to be told. I don't know how far you want to get into this, but for various reasons that became the beginning. But, uh, you know, for various reasons that became, you know, the beginning, middle, uh, and and the reason I finished the film, you know, was for her. So I suppose that would be yeah, if any of them would be January, for sure, yeah, yeah, I would love for you to share her story a little bit with my listeners.

Speaker 2: 12:24

Well, I met January lovely person Uh was open. She was a little bit bipolar so she was up and down. When we first met, after having our long conversation, she offered to actually even finance the film and I quickly realized that that was just kind of a little bit of a mania kind of thing. So as much as I appreciated the offer and all that kind of stuff, I wasn't going to take her up on that. But fate would have it. I found another funding source. So she, we started and we we did the film and she was very passionate about helping me through it and introducing me to all the rest of it.

Speaker 2: 12:56

But she did struggle with with her her manic episodes and in my mind, her, her interest in bbsm helped kind of. Can have a very controlled environment. If somebody who a normal person says I'm just not going to see you or I'm only going to see under these conditions, blah, blah, blah, they might think you're a bit weird, but as a dominatrix that's like almost exciting. You know to very, to be very limited with your time and very particular about the way you want to interact. So I think that really helped her. But eventually unfortunately she lost her battle with uh, with mental health and unfortunately took her own life. And that happens about a year and a half, a year or so after the completion of the film.

Speaker 2: 13:35

And I was paralyzed, I didn't really know what to do. Should I not do the film? I mean, she was my partner in it. I couldn't figure it out and other things happened COVID and personal health issues and all the rest of it.

Speaker 2: 13:52

And then one day I woke up and just said you know what, I'm going to talk to the people that love her, talk to her sister and talk to her parents and ask them should I cut her out of the movie completely? Should I? You know, what should I do here? And they saw what I had had at the movie at that time and she knew that it was really a big, important thing for her. And you know, so they gave me permission to sort of go ahead and you know, as long as we didn't make it about that, which was never my intention anyway so that became the urgency to finish it, you know, and that was to honor her to finish it, because it's a ridiculously tough process to make a movie.

Speaker 2: 14:30

And, uh, so you know, I mean I'm glad that sort of she's sort of the the angel on my ear sort of pushing me to keep doing this and trying to get this out there, because for me it's sort of a one-on-one on kink. If you're, if you're a little bit curious, this will give you a little bit more information and hopefully provide you with that safe feeling that, okay, maybe I can explore this. I'm not saying you have to be into this, you have to do this, but it is a visit to Kinkyland where you'll sort of see some beautiful people from different walks of life in Kinkyland and I hope you'll realize that, yeah, some people, it was great, for some people not so much, but it's real and it's a beautiful place.

Speaker 1: 16:13

And I believe it's an empowering place. She pitched it to you. Why was she so passionate about wanting? I mean, she clearly wanted this movie done for a reason enough to be like I'll figure out how to get you the money for it, even though that was potentially beyond her means. What was she so passionate about? Letting the world know about the kink community?

Speaker 2: 16:33

I think she just wanted people to be more open to it, to explore it, to see the beauty of it, to see the fact that I think a lot of people these days are curious how men are supposed to behave or how women are supposed to behave, and you know, and the reality is, we all come up with, we can all come up with our own rules and we can all come up with our own systems, and I think consent and kink culture is sort of a roadmap forward for society in general and I think she loved that, loved the idea that you can make your life the way you want it, without judgment. You can be into what you're into and you should. You can find this community that should not shame you. You know nobody's perfect, but for the most part kinksters aren't going to shame you. If you're into x, y or z, they may say I'm not into x, y or z, but you know that's cool.

Speaker 2: 17:23

So I think she was passionate about the world that she discovered and also passionate about getting people away from this sort of two-dimensional notion that, oh, dominatrix is always like this or it's just like a one-dimensional thing. She wanted to show more in-depth. Look at these people with the sense that that would which I believe it did, you know give it more depth. You know you, you see them as two-dimensional. Yeah, you might be a slave by day and xyz by night. You know we're multi-dimensional, rich people that kink can offer a way of us navigating relationships and really the gospel, according to kink, I guess wanting to see that get out there, get out into the world right.

Speaker 1: 18:06

I think the film did a lovely job of showing how a soccer mom or you know which is a beauty it really worked out well. Your average mom, dad, guy, girl can also have this other side, and it's not as though one side is good and one side is bad. They both just coexist in all of us. We all have different aspects of who we are.

Speaker 1: 18:34

I talk a lot on this podcast about how in society we are sort of conditioned to set our sexual selves over here and that separation of sexual self from whole self is super damaging. And I think that what you see in this movie is how people are able to bring their whole self to the table in a safe space. And I also love how you mentioned that the kink community and it's also really well outlined in this movie gives you sort of a capsule for sexual behavior. Bdsm can be dangerous, but vanilla sex can be dangerous, and in vanilla sex we don't talk about consent, we don't talk about aftercare, which should be present in any sex, but in the confines of, as you know, the BDSM, the kink church, there is like all of these pieces that the community insists on being honored. So it's beautifully stated. Um, so it's beautifully stated. Can, uh, you share anything that really surprised you at on your own journey into this world? Were there aspects of your own self that developed and changed as you met people, as you learned more?

Speaker 2: 19:54

Absolutely. Um, I usually don't share this actually, but, um, during the making of the documentary I ended up dating a dominatrix. Uh, it was quite famous and quite well known and at that time I was still sort of up my own butt a little bit and being the kind of, uh, dominant guy, um, you know I well. So she surprisingly agreed to be my submissive, my slave, which you know when you're kind of topping or dominating, uh, a woman. It was kind of a bit of a rush, but what it made me realize is that if this person's so comfortable that they're willing to be fluid, what the hell am I? Why am I so up in my own whatever, that I have to always be on this side of the slash? So I ended up bottoming to her at one point, which maybe was her evil plan from the whole beginning. I don't know, but it was an incredible experience. It was an incredible experience and I just realized that you know, once you're you don't we also judge ourselves. We also get sort of so stuck in our own whatever that we, even though we think we're open minded, maybe we're not that open-minded when you have a person that you're willing to has this experience and she had enormous experience and whipping and slay and dominating men and all the rest of it. And then when am I going to get an opportunity to sort of play with someone at this level?

Speaker 2: 21:09

So I had a five-hour session with her which started with tap, tap, tap and ended up with bull whips, with flesh being ripped off my back, and it still felt like tap, tap, tap five hours later. I mean, I felt wonderful. It was like I don't never tried heroin, but I assume this is what it's like, what it feels like. This was pure joy and I had and if it wasn't filmed I would have probably not believed how the intensity could increase. But she had that sort of mastery of knowing exactly how to kind of build it in such a way that I didn't really feel what was happening, but she kept increasing the pain, but nothing I couldn't take to the point that it was just this euphoric experience. So I think, learning that even when you think you're open-minded, it's good to try both sides of the slash, it's good to be a little more open. I used to make fun of people that were switchy. I think make up your mind, you're being greedy, but it makes more sense to me. You know people inspire different things. No-transcript.

Speaker 1: 22:26

Did you encounter any kink that surprised you, that you weren't aware of before? You were like wow, you know, it just took you aback.

Speaker 2: 22:35

Um, in a shocking way or just a surprising way. I can't think of anything in a shocking way, but in a surprising way, and it's partly because I'm consulting for different companies right now. But there's this kink called pedal pumping that's incredibly popular. That just blows me away that this is actually a super popular video kink that people are buying right now. It basically consists usually starts with a woman talking about how she has this car. That's hard to get started. You don't ever see the woman or the car, but you hear it sort of starting. Maybe you're trying to start and sometimes you'll see her foot on the gas pedal and then she's slowly getting the gas pedal going or getting the car revving and you know it might have a money shot to some exhaust shooting at the exhaust pipe at some point, seven or eight minutes later and this is top 100 bestselling like clips in fetish world right now. I've never even heard of the thing before.

Speaker 1: 23:27

You mean there's no nudity? No, it's literally just.

Speaker 2: 23:31

In fact I've often thought I should shoot it. I mean, you just see a boot, it's usually a boot and it's a woman's voice, but you could do that. Yeah, I mean, you just see a boot, it's usually a boot and it was a woman's voice, but you could do that. Yeah, it's just, it's just a voice. I'm guessing it's kind of like some sort of JOI thing for people that are too shy to see nudity I don't know exactly what making out. So whether they be in burqas or they be in traditional Mormon clothing or Hasidic clothing, and it's just usually it's quite innocent again, but it's just thinking, you know, people looking sort of seriously religious kissing or making out just being whatever. I mean those two kinks kind of like never heard of them and were shocked to find out. They're like top 100 in the world right now on some of these websites.

Speaker 1: 24:16

You made the wrong movie.

Speaker 2: 24:19

Yeah, totally Totally. My next movie is going to be pedal pumping from from pedal.

Speaker 1: 24:24

You launched this movie in 2023, correct? That's when people were able to started screening it. Can you tell me a little bit about what the reception has been like?

Speaker 2: 24:35

It's been really good. My first screening was at one of the largest festivals in Canada called Fantasia. It sold out audience of 400 people and it was wonderful People really. You know there's always a question and answer after that, so I had nice, nice applause and people asking questions, people even crying about how they were. This helped. They've been trying to explain it to the partner. You know they have a particular interest in kink and the partner has always sort of just said to them nah, and they've been trying to figure out some way to break the ice a little bit and after this film a lot of people said good, it was a really nice intro. It helped me sort of break the ice with my partner and that's been high praise Generally.

Speaker 2: 25:20

I find it's better received by women Because I think women are a little bit more open-minded, because the film isn't focusing on its kink in general talk about an overview kind of thing but it is a little bit more femdom heavy because those are people I met and I think that resonates more with women and some men maybe feel a little bit threatened by that which is dominance. Is dominance doesn't really matter gender, but women tend to find my reviews have been 87% popular or positive with women and you know less with men. So generally speaking, uh been very, very good, especially with women.

Speaker 1: 25:57

Uh, have you had any negative feedback or any pushback?

Speaker 2: 26:01

Yeah, I'm not going to say I didn't. I think everyone is so hungry to be represented. Everybody had said literally 10,000 people signed up to my newsletter looking for a documentary that represented the community in a better way, and a few people criticized that they didn't feel represented. It was like, okay, well, there wasn't enough rope in it or there wasn't enough spanko in it, and I'm like I would love the budget to do a 100-part series and cover the top 100 best kinks or kinks in general. But these were the people I met. This is the journey I had. I didn't make anything up. If I had met more rope people, there'd be more rope in it.

Speaker 2: 27:45

Um, so some people just kind of you know, just a hunger to finally see something that represents them and feel that they weren't represented because it was a little bit more about femdom, a little bit more about women, um, and that was the only thing. It's not a big thing. Most people, even those people, say it's still the kind of thing they'd show to their parents because that was always my, my, my ultimate goal. When I was a kid, my parents were too shy to talk about sex, so they handed me a videotape, a little vhs cassette, to sort of explain the birds and the bees, and I'd always partly envisioned this as something to get back to them, to explain why kink isn't so scary and kink isn't so dangerous and a lot of people use it just for that. It's like mom and dad, watch this and you'll sort of get a sense of what this is, what this world is as a player, who are the people in it, rather than being so afraid, you know. So that was always the intention and I think I accomplished that. But, yeah, pushback is always just not being represented, or, uh, people are very political things.

Speaker 2: 28:39

Some people are more concerned about like, oh, I don't feel there was any transgender people in it, and I'm like, well, actually there was several, but I'm not going to label people. I'm not going to go like, oh, there's not people of color, there's not people actually there was, but I'm not going to label oh, this person you might not know happens to be trans. I mean, that wasn't the point. If they wanted to describe themselves as that, I would describe them that. But most said I'm a dominatrix, I'm a slave, I'm a submissive. That's how they wanted to be identified. That's how I identified them. But people, I think, are a little, maybe too political right now and they want everything to be a message, and I wanted to create something a little bit more mainstream, a little bit more of a 101. So most people are just curious or getting into it. People are very into a particular kink or like, oh, it'll be represented. So a little bit of pushback on that.

Speaker 1: 29:26

I do think that, at least it seemed to me, there was definitely an underlying message of women's empowerment through sexuality, which obviously I'm a fan of.

Speaker 1: 29:39

I felt like it was talked about quite a bit. One of the things that stood out in my mind was there's a conversation that takes place about how, in the sort of femdom world, it's one of the areas where women getting older doesn't work against them, areas where women getting older doesn't work against them. Let's say that again, it's actually a pro, because you're a pro, the longer you are in this world, the more experience you have, and I think that there was I think it was said that like if you can be 74 year old dominatrix and have a huge following because they know that you're skilled at what you do, and so I found it really inspiring to talk about a world where it's completely counter to what we experience in our mainstream world that wants to devalue women by their increased sexual experience, devalue women by their increased sexual experience, devalue women by their increased age right, which I think at our core, most women. I just turned 50 this year and the conversation I keep having with women in my age ranges is just like I'm like, more confident, more sexual, more like I feel more sexy when I go out, when when I do things, because I think our inside world is at odds with the outside conventional world and so the kink world tends to really like embrace that women's empowerment and sexuality and what we have to offer.

Speaker 1: 31:17

And it did seem to be at least at the underlying kind of message or at the core of the messaging in the documentary, and I also feel like it aligns with the times. At least my listeners. I have a lot of you reaching out about femdoms. I think there's a growing interest from men like who want to be released from the chains of conventional roles, who love the idea of having a woman just like step up and take control sexually so they can like step out of this role they've been forced into. So would I mean, did you do that intentionally or did it just kind of happen because of the stories that you picked up?

Speaker 2: 32:05

I think it both. I wanted to focus more on women and empowerment of women, because I get kink is controversial enough, god forbid. I just do it about, you know, men dominating women or something. I might as well just sort of shoot myself in the head right now. It has to be a. I did that intentionally, but for me it was more about trying to get the framework.

Speaker 2: 32:29

If people remember one thing about the film and the reason I have the big O in the middle of touch is this circular process of just being open, just talking and not feeling shame. I can say, okay, I really would like you to dominate me, I really would like this, I would like that, just getting past the shame and having open and honest conversations with your partner. And then, of course, these things come to light where people want to try different things and they'll be more open and get out of this sort of oh I'm the football star, I can't do this, you know, just be more honest with yourself and then getting that consent and playing in that way and then following up and seeing how that was, you know, continuing that circle of experimentation and letting yourself get more and more open and more and more trusting and more and more cared for and I think we just gravitate more naturally to where we're supposed to be that way and we get past this sort of bullshit that's been. You know, one of the greatest things I've learned from traveling is not everywhere thinks the same. You know there are places that are largely matriarchal cultures. There are cultures that are more socialist. There are cultures that are more right. You know there's. There is no one handed down from the universe way of living.

Speaker 2: 33:42

We make up the rules and as we move into this modern age, I think it's important that we're open to that and have those honest conversations. And you know, I think it's going to work out that 50 of the time you're probably going to want a woman in charge and 50 you're probably going to want a man in charge. You know it's not. I don't even know that it's actually about gender. To be honest, I think it's just about people. But yeah, it was more about providing that circle and that safety and making a safe space for both men and women to find what they're looking for and in an open way, and experiment in a healthy way and give it that roadmap.

Speaker 2: 34:20

That's the worst part about you know, my generation. We had a set of rules. My dad tried to tell me a set of rules and those rules were all gone and this generation didn't really get a new set of rules yet. I haven't seen, seen the rule book yet, at least. So I think the rule. Now the thing is well, it depends on what you and I want to do, or you and you know you, two people want to do, and they work that out for themselves. And even if we'd agree to one thing doesn't mean that works for anybody else. So maybe that's the way forward and kink really offers that for all genders and frees women to be who they really want and want what they really want, and frees men to.

Speaker 2: 34:58

You know, the downside of being men sometimes is, you know, they don't really have the emotional spectrum.

Speaker 2: 35:01

Also, you know, I've heard it described that men for the most part are basically allowed to get angry and slightly pleased with themselves.

Speaker 2: 35:10

That's kind of the emotional spectrum of men, you know. So poor men also need to find ways of being more vulnerable, ways of finding different things, and they have to trust, you know, uh, people feminine, or maybe it's in same sex, it doesn't really matter but I always think they can respect feminine energy and masculine energy more than genetics. Uh, you know that feminine sort of healing energy versus that masculine sort of naturally kind of maybe protecting energy, rather than actual biological gender. But both have very useful purposes, you know, and we, we all have both of those things. So I think I'm less about biological gender but just more about understanding that everything's a spectrum and we should just find these safe spaces to have honest conversations and not worry that we're going to be judged. And that's the thing I love the most about the kink community. You go to a kinky munch and you say, hey, I really like X, y and Z. Somebody might be into X, y and Z and they might be into X, y and Z with you.

Speaker 1: 36:09

You traveled all over to do the filming filming and so you chose people in different places. Did you find that some locations, uh, were just more open-minded, like I know? You went to oregon and you went. Did you find that some places where you went to film were like this area of the world is more conducive and friendly to kink communities and this environment over here location? Wow, it's totally different than when I was in Oregon.

Speaker 2: 36:44

I guess it depends on how you want to define that. Certainly, in a place like California it's more on the sleeve. You can have those conversations a little bit more. Yet the kink scene is about the same. You go to the East Coast, massachusetts, rhode Island, these places. It's more underground but it's the same size. I think the only difference really is how quick, how open they're going to be about it, how public or how private they are.

Speaker 2: 37:06

I think the exact percentage of people that are kinky everywhere and have this interest in this drive is probably exactly the same almost everywhere. But it's a question of style, you know, and in some places they might. You know, I've talked to young people and it's amazing the conversations in high school right now people are all polyamorous and gender fluidity and kind of have this wonderful sort of bringing. I probably was that too, but I didn't have those words. You know there's this wonderful, but because you can have that conversation there, isn't that? Oh, you have to be straight and you have to have a girlfriend, you know.

Speaker 2: 37:40

So I think having those conversations is a great way to start. But to answer your question more directly, I think that the world is pretty kinky. They have different kinks but has the same percentage everywhere, the it's more of a factor of education. I think the more educational on average, the more kinky on average people are, and then it's just a question of how public or private they are and that's more to do with general society and they have different kinks. Different places definitely have different kink priorities, different kink interests.

Speaker 1: 38:08

Like, give me an example.

Speaker 2: 38:11

Well, the British, I think, grew up especially the people, the older generation, grew up a lot with corporal punishment, so they love still caning and whipping and paddling where the Californians don't have any idea, haven't had corporal punishment for forever and it's just not a big thing. You know, in the Muslim world there's a lot. I think they grow up at the feet of. You know young men the first thing they see when they're hitting their age is the women's feet or the beautiful black hair, guess what. They have big fetishes for hair and feet. American men, maybe. We're looking at Playboy and of course we have big fetishes for boobs.

Speaker 2: 38:44

I think what's going on in the culture around the time that you're starting to have your first desire often forms our first fetishes. Everyone's got them. Have your first desire often forms our first fetishes. We still everyone's got them. But that's sort of the cultural influence, I believe is when you what's happening around you in those formative years, you know what, what are you seeing? If you're looking at playboys, you're going to like this. If you're looking at that, you're probably going to like that. I think it's something, a connection around that time.

Speaker 2: 39:12

But I think we all form those kinks and those interests around that time and you know it's funny man, I always laugh. He's funny man say, oh, I'm not kinky. Are you a boob man? Or are you like legs? You're like butts? Oh, I've always loved women's legs. Well, guess what? You're a fetishist. You just have a relatively common fetish, but that's a kink. Okay, you know, there's no difference between someone who likes legs and someone likes feet. It's just just maybe a less common kink. Realizing we all have those things for whatever reason. You know, we all have. We like eyes, we like a conversation, we like whatever we like. There's something that is particularly hot for us, that formed at a relatively early age and most of the time that will stay with us as a primary kink.

Speaker 1: 39:47

And it was in this film, I think there were conversations around how some people think that they're vanilla, but then when, when you go into their houses or when you really talk about them, they've got the pink fuzzy handcuffs and they've got, you know, the blindfolds and they, and it's like that's not exactly vanilla, you know, but it's. But then what comes into play, I think, is all that messaging, that's like that you can do that much, but if you go further than then you're strange, then something's like wrong with you. I think also in the film you did do a wonderful job of covering sort of historically what BDSM it was classified as, classified as a mental, emotional disorder.

Speaker 2: 40:33

Up until 2003, I believe it was still considered a mental illness. Yes, well, being gay was a mental illness until 1967, I believe.

Speaker 1: 40:42

Yeah, so you can see the evolution in the film. Assumption is in my mind that we will just keep evolving and realizing sort of the ridiculousness of the purity culture that's been prevalent, right? I also wondered if the way this film ended up cultivating and being released. It seems to be in stride with a growing. It seems to be in stride with a growing, a very quickly growing interest by the general population in kink. Kink is actually becoming more mainstream, I would argue, by the moment, by the day, by the month, by the year, as is non-monogamy and alternate relationship lifestyles, right Is?

Speaker 1: 41:34

this something you saw and is it part of why you thought moving forward with the movie would be good?

Speaker 2: 41:42

Absolutely, and I think these things come in a wave. I think the crest of the last wave was probably Fifty Shades of Grey and it's actually. But I mean, it goes up and goes down, goes up but gets stronger each time as the wave goes. I think for the most part we're sort of the bottom of the wave right now, but it is building, the interest is always there. That's a society changes. You know, ideas get introduced, they get accepted, maybe they get pushed back a little bit, then they get adjusted and then accepted again and then go forward and you know this is just how public discourse works. So, and you know this is just how public discourse works. So, yeah, I was hoping to catch that wave at the right time for sure. I do believe it that people open and their minds open and close, depending on what the political winds and what's happening in our lives. Obviously, if we're all suffering economically or there's terrible things going on, we tend to get into our shells like little turtles and we just deal with what we have to deal with as we get in a position in time to be more introspective and to look at these things. These things are a luxury, you know, a important one. But you know we have to be in a political and emotional space to be ready to be open to these things, you know. So yeah, I hope to catch it. I was hoping to to be in that.

Speaker 2: 42:51

I am finding surprising amount of pushback in in the states broadcasters I got a broadcaster in Germany and Italy, israel Europeans seem to really like it's part of the thing A lot of American festivals and broadcasters. I think it was too edgy for them. So that's why I'm. And buying a movie about kink for your platform might not be the safest choice. When there's another Marvel movie to buy, I think they're just playing it safe right now. But the Europeans certainly get it and enjoy it. I'm getting a wonderful interest. That's why I'm doing these podcasts.

Speaker 2: 43:37

I get people sent my newsletter, I let them know the next screening and I'm always selling these screenings out. Now people are actually doing their own screenings all over the world of the film to try and get the word out and it's going quite well. And I think you know once the final numbers come in and it's going quite well, and I think you know, once the final numbers come in, the broadcaster is probably going to wish that they'd had a bigger piece of it, cause it is a grassroots thing. It's the beginning of something. It's the you know nobody. You know, 30 years ago nobody was catering to the gay market. Now it seems like every other film. You know, you know it. You know, 30 years from now people will cater to it more directly. I think they're indirectly been catering to it for a long time, but more directly catering to a kinky market as things go.

Speaker 1: 44:24

I mean obviously kinky people can be of all orientations, but you know kink's bigger than bigger than all of it.

Speaker 1: 44:26

You know, I did notice in the movie it really it does contrast, sort of the 50 shades of gray Love it. Or it does contrast sort of the 50 Shades of Grey love it or hate it. It did help expose mainstream people to the world of kink and a lot of women in specifically got real turned on to it and interested. Now the kink community, I think, was frustrated by it for many, many reasons and it's because it really did connect to the main character who was the kinkster in the beginning to mentally being, you know, mentally, emotionally troubled and there was that tie and also, like you know, if you're someone who's done kink for any amount of time, the woman who wrote it's just terrible writer, just terrible writer and and didn't represent it well.

Speaker 1: 45:18

But it did do favors to the mainstreaming and acceptance of kink, setting the conversation where it can be palatable and even enticing to mainstream folks without doing a disservice to the actual true experience, which would be my argument for why, in celebration of Kingtober or if you're listening to this later on in the year, why you should watch it if you're curious or even if you're like, not even curious, you're anti the idea of it. You might, might want to just give it a little, give it a little taste, because most likely, when you are taking care of yourself at night, you're thinking about something kinky. So why not open your mind to it, right, absolutely, absolutely. You know, one of the stories I wish, I wish I documented.

Speaker 2: 46:08

I only found out about later was a couple, absolutely. You know, one of the stories I wish I, I wish I documented. I only found out about it later was a, a couple that had, you know, married when they're very young. He was the quarterback, she was the cheerleader, and you know, they first love, got married two, three years later they divorced 20 years later. They meet up at a kink event and they have sit down and have a conversation. Turns out he was the quarterback, all the rest, but he really wanted to be a slave. He wanted to be submissive, but he was just afraid to tell his wife. He thought she would judge him and might as well like whatever. So he never, rather than have the conversation. You know, he just this is working, guess what? She also wanted to be more dominant and wanted to whatever, but she felt I'm the chair, supposed to be the good american girl, so she didn't feel comfortable having that conversation. They found out they're perfect for each other. They've been together and happily remarried ever since.

Speaker 2: 46:57

You know why did these people lose 20 years? Cause they were afraid to have an honest conversation, and I hope that's what this does is make it okay to say yeah, okay, I'm going to be honest with you. I like to, whatever you know. I like X, y and Z. Hope you're not going to judge me and think that's weird, but I'm going to at least be honest with you. I don't necessarily have to do X, y and Z, but I'm going to be open. That's honest thing and be feel comfortable enough to say it because you might be rewarded where you will be rewarded ultimately.

Speaker 1: 47:26

I love that you say that. I think watching this film with your partner would be wonderful. I have recently been intimacy coaching. I have several clients and I also have people reach out to me all the time and one of the things that's really struck me because it's never been an issue in my life is how many people aren't having honest conversations with their life partners about sex, like they can't talk to them about sex.

Speaker 1: 47:59

It's incredibly common and it causes so much strife in a relationship and and and personal like if you want to talk about emotional internal conflict and you know mental health issues. When you can't talk to the person you're having sex with about what you want because you're afraid they might leave you. That creates such an unpleasant inner world. So I love the fact that you bring up that. Hopefully this will help people start having honest conversations with their partner. If you are going to be having sex with anybody, I don't care. One night stand, you know someone you just started dating your wife, your, you know, whoever life partner, you need to be able to have honest conversations about sex or you will live in a cage and not the fun, kinky kind of cage for the rest of your life, right it's more than sex.

Speaker 2: 48:58

even it's just sensation and connection too. Maybe, you know, you're not, uh, for whatever reason, able to have classic intercourse. Maybe there's other things that you want to play with and other sensations you want to achieve, and it's a way to have those conversations too. You know, maybe you just like a good spanking, for whatever reason that wakes you up in the morning.

Speaker 2: 49:19

You know a wonderful Belgian movie called SM Richter, which is a true story of a judge that got into S&M to help his wife beat depression. And you know her getting spanked on a fairly regular basis helped her get out of depression. You know she needed that stimulation more than anything else and just helped her. It was better than medication, it was the single best thing that she found and it was by all accounts, super healthy. Of course it's a sad story because him being a judge and the world finding out didn't work out so well for him. But it's a true story and it's sort of a beautiful, bittersweet story of, you know, them being a happier couple than they ever were and her working through depression, through the sensation of having impact, play more than sex. But it's changing her life, you know.

Speaker 1: 50:04

So I guess my last question to you would be is if you were ever to do a follow-up, or follow this up, with another kinky film, what would your next step be in telling the story?

Speaker 2: 50:15

Well, actually I'm working on a series right now, a 10-part episode with any luck, you know, it'll be on Netflix in a couple of years and I'm calling it Modern Love and I want to do 10 episodes on different aspects of the kink community. You know, it's funny because there's subgroups in the kink community that don't necessarily consider themselves kinky. They're just into spanking, for example, or they're just into rope, for example, or they're just into going to parties and wearing latex, or they don't really necessarily think of themselves as kinky. They just have this other little thing that they like and in their world that's normal and by all accounts it is kink to me. But there is interesting lessons in it all and seeing those people and I would love to just focus on do one episode per you know the top 10, you know latex, spanking, bdsm, uh, rope, a few, just the top 10, sort of most common things that there's whole communities around and go more in depth just on one kink and the language of it and why they do it.

Speaker 2: 51:19

I mean, I remember going to a spanking event once and seeing 10 couples doing the spanking and it just struck me that every one of those people, although it looks exactly the same is having a completely unique experience. You know, some are having pleasure from it, some pain, some of it might be a dominant having their sub do it, some might be who knows? But you can't tell by looking. But I know those stories are interesting and I think there's a lot. There's always so much with the old cliche, right, there's more to a book than its cover, and I would love to do a 10 part series sort of illustrating there's more to a book than its cover and I would love to do a 10-part series sort of illustrating there's more to a kink than what you see at first glance.

Speaker 1: 51:56

I love it. Well, we'll have to keep our eye out for that. Can you tell my listeners for now where they can watch your film, how they can find information out about you and TouchKink?

Speaker 2: 52:08

TouchKinkcom. Go to TouchKinkcom, you can see the trailer. Sign up for the newsletter. I usually have a geo located so I'll send out notices for screenings in your area. Some are virtual screenings, some are real life screenings uh, something in european countries. It'll be on tv. But yeah, just sign up, go to touchkinkcom, put your name in for the newsletter and you'll get information.

Speaker 1: 52:33

Perfect, and of course, I will put the links below. Thank you so much for joining me today. And thank you for giving me the opportunity to watch the film and talk to you about it. I think it's a wonderful way to kick off the month and it's also a wonderful way to help my listeners find their way on their own journey through their sex lives and, hopefully, maybe at least tasting kinks. So until next time, listeners, I will see you in the locker room. Cheers.