Locker Room Talk & Shots Podcast
Locker Room Talk & Shots Podcast
Breakup Recovery: A 3-Step Approach to Healing
Breakups can be devastating. Finding your way through grief and putting your life back together can feel impossible. Emmi Fortin is a breakup and relationship coach who has put a 3-Step approach together that guides her clients through 90 Days of healing and gets them well on their way to a full breakup recovery.
In this episode, you'll learn:
-What love addiction is
-Why you may be stuck in toxic relationship cycles
-What some of the biggest barriers to healing from a breakup are
-What her 3-step approach to breakup recovery is
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Cheers!
Do the sex Think fun, honest and feminist as fuck, and always with the goal of fighting the patriarchy. One female orgasm at a time. Welcome to the locker room. Today's locker Talk and Shots topic is love, addiction and breakup recovery how to come back from a breakup stronger and better than ever Now.
Speaker 1:My longtime listeners know I am no stranger to the heartache game and the breakup pain, and I'm sure none of you are either. I know all of us have experienced this, most likely at this point at some point in our life. And the question is how do we go through the breakup and recovery phase? Not only quickly, because we all just want it to be over, the pain to be over, but how do we do it in such a way that we actually grow from it and become stronger, more resilient people who may find the actual best love and relationship for our future right. Well, my guest today is a breakup and relationship coach and is going to hopefully, I feel confident give us a little bit of a map for that process.
Speaker 1:My guest is Emmy Fortin, a breakup and relationship coach. She draws on her own past heartbreak to empathize with clients navigating the complexities of breakup, divorce and relationship stress. Through her expertise, she transforms adversity into opportunity, guiding individuals to understand themselves better and cultivate leadership skills for a brighter future. As a two-time international bestselling author, leadership consultant and public speaker, emmy passionately empowers others to shape their mindset, acquire resilience and find support to navigate life's challenges with confidence and grace. Emmy, I would love for you to take a moment to tell my listeners a little bit more about you and your book that's out.
Speaker 2:Hi, thank you for that beautiful introduction and thank you for having me on your podcast. I'm sure everyone listening and you know that this is a topic that is super relevant, and so I really am passionate about helping people in this time in their lives, because it can possibly be one of the hardest things you'll ever have to do and go through in your life and, with that being said, depending on how you choose to deal with it and move through it can really determine the trajectory of the rest of your life. So I don't mean to sound dramatic, but it kind of is a really big deal because you know you could take your experience and go into completely different paths. So it's my job as a guide to make sure that people are putting themselves on the path that they want to be on, rather than getting stuck on one that just keeps them stuck or even makes a downward spiral even more.
Speaker 1:Yes, I agree with you. There are a couple ways that the whole breakup process can go, and one of them's real bad. At least one of them is real bad, and so I'm excited to have this conversation with you For my listeners. Feel free to head over to my YouTube channel and you can see our beautiful faces as we talk about breaking up and love, addiction, what it is, and recovery. And I really encourage you to stay the course to the end of the podcast, because, even if you aren't in the middle of a breakup now, the chances that you may end up in one, or that maybe you went through one a long time ago and you never truly recovered and you never learned the skills that you really need to find healthy relationships and, even more importantly than that, have a healthy future Well, this may be the podcast that helps you change that. So let's get ready to talk about love, addiction, breakups and recovery. Cheers, cheers. Amy, I want to talk about your path to becoming a breakup and relationship coach.
Speaker 2:Yeah it. Everyone asks this question because it's not a profession or career that you hear pretty often. Right, you've? There's a lot of different coaches out there.
Speaker 2:I started off as a high school biology teacher for 16 years and during my time teaching I was involved in a very tumultuous relationship. So I call it a situation ship, and if anybody has heard of that term or hasn't, it's essentially this uncertain arrangement that you have with someone, but it can feel extremely intense and so in my case and in many other people's cases, it's very confusing. My relationship was on and off, so I was going through breakups with the same person over and over and over again. So I was going through breakups with was like rolled up on the living room floor by myself in my apartment just crying again like heaving crying, and I was just.
Speaker 2:I stopped and got this moment of clarity and it's like the clouds just like went away and they were like you are the only one who can save yourself from this, like no one is coming to save you, and I got really, really clear on the fact that I had to start taking action to help myself. You are the only one who can save yourself from this. Like no one is coming to save you, and I got really, really clear on the fact that I had to start taking action to help myself get to a place where I wanted to be and that I couldn't stay in that position. And it was also in that moment that I knew that I wanted to help other people who were stuck in these kinds of situations as well, so went through a healing journey and a learning journey, a self-discovery journey, and got my certification as a coach, and now it's what I help people do. I left teaching in 2021, and I'm super passionate about helping people in this way.
Speaker 1:It's such an important thing to have support through a breakup and and it can be hard, I can tell you from my personal experience. You know when you go through a breakup, at first, like the first couple of weeks, your friends and support system are, all you know, cool and there for you, lifting you up. But as time goes on, unfortunately I feel like in our society we expect healing to just happen quickly, like you've got a couple weeks and you got to be better and you got to be out there and you got to be your fun, happy self again. But I think, as we'll probably find out in this conversation and you'll verify, that healing is not an overnight process, it's not linear and it is like to lose a person from your life. It's very much like experiencing a death. It's traumatic, it's a traumatic experience and that path is not fast and while all of the support falls away, having someone like you I could see it being incredibly helpful. But can we talk about love addiction this term? What is love addiction?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I didn't even know it was a thing that existed until I realized, hey, I think I have that or I think I was in that. Just like any other kind of addiction, it's this compulsion to do something that you know is not good for you, and it's usually filling some kind of void in yourself or you're trying to feel a certain way because of something going on inside of you. So for some people it might be your thoughts, your beliefs, for some people it might be past trauma that happened, but you're essentially reaching for something outside of yourself to make yourself feel a certain way in each moment. And so I think you know, when it comes to substance abuse, it's like very clear for people to understand like okay, that person's using alcohol, to you know, drown away their sorrows, or using a drug, but people use people all the time to try to feel better.
Speaker 2:And so one thing that I get asked often is like when can I date again? And there's no specific timeframe with what we're talking about, any kind of ending of a relationship, and especially in a cycle like love addiction. You really need to make sure that you've had time to process everything you're going to reconnect with yourself and identify. Am I kind of using anything outside of myself to try to, you know, almost fix myself when there should be other things I'm doing to get really stable in my own foundation instead? And so that love addiction piece is just that yearning. It's almost like I have to have it because you're so depleted in something.
Speaker 1:So, if I'm understanding this right, love addiction can be looking for a relationship and to fall in love, to fill a hole that's there, or it can be looking for the next relationship when you're in the heartache phase, to make the heartache, to make the heartache go away and getting caught.
Speaker 2:So actually, I'm glad that you you're, I'm glad that you're saying this, because I would say there is a distinction, I think. I think a lot of people do, you know, look, look to date again to like feel better right away, and I wouldn't be quick to say, oh, you're a love addicted. I think the difference is that with love addiction, it's a compulsion to keep on doing it. So in my case, as I said, we broke up over and over and over again, but even though I knew the whole time, I knew the situation was bad for me, and yet I kept on going back and getting myself re-involved with that same person in that same toxic cycle. So I think that is where the difference lies.
Speaker 1:So love addiction is within a relationship. It's the person that you keep going back to being addicted to that situation or yeah, and I would say even the idea of a person or the idea of a relationship.
Speaker 2:But you know, the person is just like that, that thing that you're fixating on. But sometimes it's just like the idea of, oh my gosh, I want to be in this, like romantic, passionate, all-consuming relationship. But you know, ultimately it might not even have anything to do with that particular person.
Speaker 1:Right, it's just the feeling and experience. Okay, so that is separate from trying to fill the hole that's there with something new Meaning. You're in the pain cycle, you're in the breakup, you're in it. You're in it. You feel like shit and you're like how do I make this stop feeling like shit? Booze, candy, food, another person, other people, sex.
Speaker 2:That's a difference. Yeah, I think there's definitely an overlap, but yes, I would distinguish them as two separate things for sure.
Speaker 1:So can you give me some signs for people who may be listening to this? So many people are in situationships or in an ongoing relationship that cycles into breakup, get back together, breakup, get back together, breakup. What are some signs that you may have a love addiction?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a, like you just said, if you find yourself in a cycle of any kind where you're just repeating the same patterns over and over again, if you're going back into a situation that you know is not healthy for you, even damaging to you, then that's definitely a sign. And if you find yourself almost feeling just this intense compulsion you know, like I know I've heard a lot of people talk about how you know when they text somebody and then they're just like drawn to their phone, it's like this magnet and you just like you're on the edge of your seat until a text comes in. You know that, but and I'm not saying that that happens like once or twice. It's like if you find that this is your natural state just to always be anxious or depressed, you know, based on what the other person is doing or not doing then that's a huge indicator that you inside of yourself are out of balance and you're relying on this external thing to make you feel peaceful and happy, and you know whatever it is that you're trying to feel.
Speaker 1:So if you um, if you can't feel peaceful and happy and balanced unless the other person like everything is perfect with the other person, that is a sign of love addiction. And then it sounds like the cycles are also.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say those are definitely signs of love addiction and it doesn't have to be love addiction, but it could be just any unhealthy relationship dynamic or, you know, even unhealthy sign of your relationship with yourself. That needs to be looked at.
Speaker 1:So a lot of people would say that if they're in a situation, ship or a relationship where the breakup happens and they get back together, they would say, but he says he's changed, or she says she's worked on this and wants to work things out, and I mean there's validity to that. Some people do, like lose a person and realize like I really fucked up a good thing and I want to fix it, I want to make it right. What do you say to them? At what point do you say did they really fix it or is this just you know, a loop, a love addiction loop you are in? How can you differentiate the two?
Speaker 2:a loop, a love addiction loop, you are in. How can you differentiate the two? That's such a great question, because when the person you love and you're so torn that they're gone comes back to you and says something like that man, is that alluring right? And we want to give the person that we love the benefit of the doubt and be like well, maybe they have changed and sometimes you know, maybe that's possible. But what I would tell you or ask you first is have you taken, truly taken a pause for yourself to do all of the inner work that you need to do to make sure that the decision you're going to make about this person or relationship is actually from a place of calmness and clarity and peace, versus from grief, uncertainty, fear, insecurity, because emotions are all over the place?
Speaker 2:You don't want to be making lifelong decisions, life impacting decisions, from a place where your emotions are not in a good vibe. So I've seen people who are working. Sometimes people come to me and they're kind of in a similar situation where they're confused or like I don't know what to do. Even people who have been thinking about ending a relationship, but they're like I don't know if I should end it or stay, and so we go through these layers of work together, and what it does is it just brings tremendous awareness, and it brings tremendous clarity about what's going like, what is the reality of the situation and where do you ultimately want to be, and so even just having that amount of awareness and clarity can help you make the right decision for yourself.
Speaker 1:Right. So at what point do you tell someone that they may need to consider breaking it off? At what point did you decide to break off your situationship? How did you come to that conclusion?
Speaker 2:Well, I did a ton of work on myself. I worked with professional coaches as well, and through that process you eventually, like I said, once you gain a certain amount of awareness, you come to a point where you just like you can't unsee things Right. And so, once you're just it's like it's almost like being thrown in your face every day, as far as like wow, this, this is not how I want to live my life. And so once I reached that point, I knew I can't stay in this. This is not bringing me to where I want to be. I'm like I want to be in a secure, loving, long lasting relationship. This is not it. So, as much as I wish it could be with this person, the reality is that it's not, and so, for me, that was my inflection point and so for me, that was my inflection point.
Speaker 1:I think it's interesting that you bring up secure, the word secure. I have done multiple podcast episodes recently on dating and relationships and one of the common themes that keeps coming up, especially from the perspective of women and what we are looking for, the word security comes up, feeling secure, which is interesting to me because I feel like oftentimes the relationships we get drawn into and addicted to are the ones that make us feel insecure. Maybe for a heartbeat of a second we feel secure, it's romantic, then it feels insecure and we're terrified. Then we kind of get sucked back into. Oh well, it feels secure now, but there's that underlying theme of insecurity. Do you think there's an addictive quality to insecure connections?
Speaker 2:I definitely experienced what you're talking about as well, and I do think that it's a feeling that we're going for right. It's that like excitement, it's that adrenaline, it's like ooh, what's going to happen. But at the same time, you don't want to be like dicked around Right. Like I said, people are making choices on who they want to be with based on how they're feeling in the moment with these people. So for for you know what you're describing. I know what I've experienced in the past. It was like, okay, when I got together with this person, there was like whoo, there was like a lot of passion and a lot going on, and I knew. I knew I liked that part. But when it came to all of my other needs that were just as important, if not more important those, those were not going to be met. And so when I'm working with people, I always encourage them to look past your momentary emotions and think about like everyone.
Speaker 2:Reflect on this question. Now go grab a journal. How do you want to feel? Give me the top three to five emotions that you want to feel as consistently as possible from day to day, and sit back and observe and just notice. Do I feel this way Like 80% of the time, 90% of the time. You know, for me, yeah, I had lots of excitement and adrenaline and passion, but I also felt like secure 10% of the time and if that's one of my main needs, so you've realized you are addicted to love.
Speaker 1:You're in a love addiction. You are in a toxic relationship and you make the decision to break up. You do the breakup and now you are a crying puddle on the floor. You don't want to get up. You do the breakup and now you are a crying puddle on the floor. You don't want to get up. You go to sleep sad. You wake up sad, life just feels bleak and you feel like the pain is never going to end. What next?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a hard time. I mean, it's really really hard. I want to acknowledge that. For if anybody's going through that right now I know I went through it and you're trying to make sense of things and I think if, if I can plant the seed in your mind to just know this, like, people are not motivated to change usually anything about themselves or anything about their life if they're too comfortable. And so when you are feeling this miserable, there will come a point where you're so miserable that you will be motivated enough to do something about it.
Speaker 2:And so that's when you start your path, your journey, where you start to seek things out. You're like, okay, clearly I can't stay here as, like you know this puddle on the floor, what is my next step? And then figure out okay, maybe I'll read a self-help book, maybe I'll start listening to a relationship podcast, right, okay, what's my next step after that? And you just start the self-care process and you start to give yourself a sense of direction about how you're helping yourself and that you're doing it consistently. Don't expect to make this like tremendous progress overnight, but as long as you can show yourself that you are making progress and that it is going to be a process, then I think that's a really healthy place to start.
Speaker 2:I always suggest hiring a professional who has been through the process and can provide some structure for you, because that's why I created my program. I thought of myself along all of the different phases that you go through when you're recovering from a breakup and I was thinking what did I need at each of those times? And so that I created a curriculum, a 12 week curriculum, for it. And so if you can find someone who can kind of be a guide and provide you some structure, it will make your recovery that much faster and, you know, with more ease than if you were just trying to kind of like flail about and find all the things on your own.
Speaker 1:Can we talk about your curriculum and what it looks like? I have listened to several of your YouTube videos and gleaned a lot of information from them and it's really interesting. You do go into the biology behind a breakup and the pain you're experiencing. You go through the psychology and mindset of it. Can you tell my listeners a little bit about your process?
Speaker 2:Like I said, I developed it based on what I knew I needed in the past, and, as a biology teacher and having a background in science, I have also discovered that you have to integrate your biology and your mind. You can't just think your way into feeling better. There's things that you have to do to involve your body, because your nervous system is the thing that is triggering all these responses in your body when stress is happening, and so there needs to be this pairing as you go through. So I lead people through this three-phase process, because I've essentially identified three problems that hold people back when they're trying to move forward from a breakup or, you know, whatever kind of relationship you're recovering from. So the first problem is that a lot of times, people won't have the exact mindset that you need to be able to move on from your ended relationship, and so in phase one, when I work with people, I essentially give them practices and reflection questions and strategies to help them reconnect with themselves and develop that mindset that's going to set them up for progress, for success. It's supportive versus pulling you back, keeping you stuck.
Speaker 2:The second problem that I see holding people back from being able to move on is that they repeat the same patterns and behaviors as in the past. And so in the phase two, we identify what your coping strategies and patterns are, see if they were serving you or not, and what needs to shift so that you don't keep doing it. I've had clients say my picker is broken, right, it's like you keep finding yourself in a similar relationship but with a different person over and over. And then the third problem that I see holding people back is a little bit about what we already discussed of. You know people are making decisions based on their fears and insecurities, and so in phase three we need to bring all of those to light so that we make sure you are making your decisions from a place of balance and peace.
Speaker 1:Can you give some tangible examples of how each one of these phases works? So maybe a problem that is the focus, and then what an active solution would be?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, for example, I'll start with phase one, because that's, like you know, the most common of what people are experiencing, when the breakup, especially, is fresh, is you're going through all of these emotions Top emotions, I hear, are sad, angry, lonely, uncertain. Okay, so let's say, you have all these overwhelming things. You have to have a way to manage them, right. So, because you got to go to work, you got to do the day-to-day things, and people expect that from you, like you said in your introduction. So when I'm working with people, I will, you know, make sure that they're being held accountable to take these little baby steps, day by day, week by week, so that they can start managing, self-managing these things on their own.
Speaker 2:One I'll share one of my favorite kind of I call it a game that I do with people in that first phase, which I call, like, the what if game. So one of the things that we do is we catastrophize everything. It's like, oh my God, what if I never meet somebody else? What if no one ever ever loves me the way this other person did? What if I die alone? What, like all these horrible what ifs, right? And so the thing that you can do is to play the what if game.
Speaker 2:You first of all notice when you're doing it, and then you come to this point where you say, okay, well, it is a possibility that I could die alone right, that's possible. It is a possibility that I could die alone right, that's possible. But if that possibility exists out there in time and space, then there's also an equal and opposite possibility that exists as well. I'm not asking you to believe it at this point, I'm simply asking you to acknowledge that it exists. So, for example, I'm going to die alone. Yep, that's a possibility. But there's also an equal and opposite possibility that you could meet the person who ends up being the most loving and fulfilling relationship you've ever had in your life. That is a possibility.
Speaker 1:Right. Right, because people start focusing on making up stories about what things are going to look like and it's all stories, right, until something actually happens. It's easy to be like what if this happens, or what if this person is doing this? And it's all just a story? It's not true, and many things could be or become true, depending on what you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because, like you said, you're putting all your focus on all these negative what ifs, and so it makes it that much more likely that those negative what ifs will happen, versus if you're focusing all of your attention on the positive or more supportive what ifs, then there's a much higher chance that those are the things that you'll welcome into your life, because if you're not even acknowledging that they exist, then how are you going to recognize it when it comes into your sphere? Right? So this is like one tiny element of retraining your brain to think and function in a supportive way versus in a self-sabotaging way.
Speaker 1:So, speaking of retraining your brain, what about? One common thing that I think a lot of people experience in a breakup is just obsessive thoughts about that relationship, that person, the good times, like you know, especially if it's been a relationship that's taken place over years. You've built memories, you built a future plan with this person and, all of a sudden, all of the things that were connected to that person which may have been quite a bit it could have been, you know, your vacations, you'd plan your living situation, you planned, you'd plan your living situation, you planned. You may have lost friendship groups or even like family-like connections with other people. What do you do around that mental state of sort of rumination that happens with things like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is. I mean, this is definitely all stuff that I would do in the first phase, which is, you know, I wouldn't say like, oh yeah, this is something you can just like fix overnight right, I mean, it would be nice, I mean, if you can let us all know Right, but I mean, but it doesn't have to take a long time, like you did say that earlier is.
Speaker 2:You know, it's a process that takes a long time. It can take a long time but doesn't necessarily have to. So, for example, when I work with people over 90 days, I would say the majority of them already start feeling better, like way better, within the first three to four weeks. And that's because we're introducing one strategy at a time, kind of like the one I just gave right, where you're starting to practice consistently how to think differently, because what you're saying is okay, I'm stuck in this repetitive loop. That's because, biologically speaking, dr Joe Dispenza speaks about this all the time.
Speaker 2:He's a researcher who does a lot with mindset and thoughts and how they connect to your emotions and your feelings. We wake up every single day, programmed in the past, like every day, 80% and don't quote me on the number, but I think it's about 80% of our thoughts are the same thoughts that we had the day before. So of course you're in a repetitive loop, of course you're thinking of the same things on repeat over and over again. And so, until you have this formula of how you can practice getting out of that loop and thinking different things and creating new paths. Yeah, all your days are going to sound and look exactly the same.
Speaker 1:Right and it's important to want to leave that place. I think a lot of people get stuck in like. One thing I've heard friends say to me who are going through breakups is like I'm afraid because one day I'm going to think about him or her and I'm not going to care. Like I can feel them disappearing from my heart and my life and in that moment where you feel so much love for them, it's the idea of losing that connection completely that can be scary, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, loss is something that's really difficult to deal with and I think it's different for different people. I also think it has to do with, like, if somebody has a really hard time with loss or letting go, I would challenge them to reflect on what their relationship with change is, because I would say, most people probably associate change with negative, like scary, uncertain and therefore a negative thing. But change essentially just means different, and so for a lot of people they're holding on, like you said. You know, if you've built a life with someone, especially a family, a home, it's a lot of change all at once. It doesn't.
Speaker 2:It might feel bad, but it doesn't mean that it has to be bad. It's just going to be different and it is your responsibility to make sure that you are transitioning into something that is supportive, nurturing, joyful for you, and so when you have a process in place of how you can make that transition, it does make it a lot smoother. Right, let's talk about phase two, that you know she had this kind of pattern from early on in childhood, of kind of only keeping a certain level of connection with other people, and so getting into a long distance relationship actually, on a subconscious level felt safe for her because that person was at a distance, a safe distance right.
Speaker 2:And it was the moment when, you know, he started talking about moving in, where she was like whoa, you know, it's like you talk about for years, like wouldn't it be so great if we could live together, like we'll always be? No, we won't have to be apart anymore. But then when that reality hits, you know and this isn't just for long distance people I noticed that I kind of had this pattern in my past too. It was like, you know, I was going out with, with all these men who were like emotionally unavailable and some of which even told me like I'm not going to be able to give you that kind of a relationship, and I was like, okay, well, we'll try it anyway and see what happens. So I think this is where the patterns and the coping strategies piece comes in. You really need to understand how you function in the world and in relationships before you can even think about the fact that you're going to, you know, create a happy, healthy, sustainable one in the future, right?
Speaker 1:right. I think self-awareness is such a big piece and knowing your own part in relationships, whether they work or they don't work, is key. One thing I have noticed in myself is that until now I was kind of uncertain on specifically what I wanted. I mean, I think a lot of times people have this vague big picture idea Of course I want a partner, of course I want someone I'm in love with and that is romantic with and I have great sex with, but those are very vague ideas. How do they play out in real life?
Speaker 1:But I had never really drilled down to like what are my must haves for what I want, so that when I do start dating someone and I recognize you know in the beginning you meet someone and the dim reality is if you meet someone and you guys hit it off, they're going to present to you what they can feel you want from them.
Speaker 1:If they want to get in your bed, they want to get in your life, they are going to present to you at first what you want and then, as time goes on you know you cannot act forever and if you don't know exactly what you want, like for me a big one is security, like I just don't in a friend and friendships, in in relationships, in most things in my life, like I want to feel secure, I don't want something that keeps my anxiety here all the time. That's not fun. That's not fun. It's probably shaving years off my life too, but I think I hadn't really like drilled into those things. So how could I possibly know when they start to pop up in the relationship that that's just a deal breaker, like?
Speaker 1:you know, you know, and it's hard because you might make it partway, you know, three, six months into a relationship and suddenly you're like, oh, you're actually truly deeply emotionally unavailable and that's not going to work for me.
Speaker 2:you know and you got to hold those boundaries is so valid because, even you know, sometimes we can think about oh, people are being manipulative when they're in the beginning and that can happen, like you're saying, oh, they're going to be just doing the things that you know to get the reactions that they want. Which can? There are people who can be manipulative to get what they want, absolutely. At the same time, it's also natural like every human pretty much does it that you show up as your best self. You know, for when you're first meeting someone, or for the first, you know, three to six months, even up to a year. So if both people are doing that, you know.
Speaker 2:that's why the beginning of a relationship is typically so easy, because you're like oh wow, both people are like this is so great, we get along so well and all the things, yeah.
Speaker 2:But then ultimately, you know, you allow your kind of full self to start shining through.
Speaker 2:You know, here and there, and that's when people discover like, wow, why isn't this like it was before? And that is where knowing yourself and not just mentally, but again bringing in the biology being really in tune with your physical body while you are in the relationship is going to give you so much information. And so I often advise people you know, especially in the beginning, when you're dating or just getting into a relationship, like take some pauses, to just kind of sit back and be an observer of what is happening, because a lot of people get enthralled by what the other person is saying to them, but then, like, are their actions in alignment with what they're saying? Like I said, you want to make sure you're paying attention to your body as consistently as possible. Emotions wise, and like do you have a feeling of peace or do you have, like you're, you're more on edge, you know, with this person, um, rather than like the momentary feelings. So there's a lot of things that you can look for to help you identify what's going on.
Speaker 1:Can you just name a couple of things that people can look for in their physical response in a relationship to help determine like is this a healthy relationship? Is this something I should take a deeper look at?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think even even the ones that we've kind of used, and I know I experienced, just like when I was in that on and off relationship, if I were to really pay attention to my body, I would notice that at least 50% of the time if not it was probably closer to like 80% of the time I felt anxious, but I knew I felt anxious, but it almost wasn't even on my radar because I was like so looking forward to that other 20% of the time where I felt like we were a couple, you know, like a real couple, even though we weren't.
Speaker 2:So it's like, how much are you paying attention to your body in between the times of seeing that person when you're interacting with that person? Right, when you're interacting with that person, right, Like if you go, you know, a full day without getting texts, like are you freaking out? Are you peaceful and calm because you guys have this like sturdy foundation of trust, right? Like it's not a matter of how frequently somebody texts you or you text each other. It's like, how do you feel in between those? Like, if I have like a foundation of really trust and loyalty with a partner, okay, I don't care if you don't text me all day because I know you're doing XYZ and I'm going to talk to you at this time.
Speaker 1:So I think a catch there that a lot of people get into and I think that I relate to. I am someone who I've had a diagnosed anxiety disorder since I was young. I've gone to therapy, I've I really feel I've done a lot of work around it and have a handle on it, but I have in relationships. What I've seen happen again and again is I start to recognize like I'm feeling anxious in this relationship and my sensors are going off and I'm like raising an eyebrow, and so what I do? I'm a big communicator, I I communicate everything as I will bring it to the table and say like I'm feeling anxious, like I'm feeling insecure, and then what typically happens or has happened cyclically in my past relationships is then it's like well, you have an anxiety disorder, like you're being, like this is you. You are freaking out, like nothing is going on, you're being crazy. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It gets weaponized and then I'm like oh shit, it is me and I don't want to. Like, I do have anxiety and what am I going to do? Like I'm in love with this person, but I'm having this feeling. But it's me, it's not what they're doing. Everything fine, Right, and that's a real really can trip you up. If you can and I guess it goes back to kind of what you said in the beginning you need to start relationships from a place where you're good with yourself, right, you trust your own inner voice.
Speaker 2:I do agree with that and I also want to honor what you're saying, because relationships are a dynamic. So, yes, it is your responsibility to you know, manage your anxiety. However, it's also the couple's response, like if you're going to choose a partner who is closed off to learning about different ways of communicating, or you know understanding, active listening, you know. If you have a partner instead who's willing to learn different techniques of communicating with you, I mean, just the smallest changes could really help build that level of security that you're looking for. So I think it's definitely a combination of being responsible for yourself and what you know are your own. You know problem areas, coping strategies, but also, is your partner growth-minded? Is your partner willing to learn what they need to learn so that you can both function in a healthy dynamic, Because they're going to have things that they're going to have needs too, and so both of you have to be willing to work with each other in that way.
Speaker 1:Right, everybody brings something to the table. Everybody brings something to the table that we have to learn to work around. You aren't going to find someone who's a blank slate and has, like, all of their dials working perfectly. I mean, it just doesn't like don't count on that. But let's move then to phase three. So we've dialed in the first two phases and we're at phase three. Does that mean we're almost better?
Speaker 2:We're definitely making tons of progress at this point. So phase three and actually in these phases I call it RED, r-e-d, restore, elevate and so dare is the last phase.
Speaker 1:Restore, elevate. Restore is phase one, elevates phase two and dare.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because elevate. We learned all the things right Our coping strategies, our patterns, our boundaries. Dare is where you really need to step out of your comfort zone so that you can create exactly that path that you want to be on, which requires you to get uncomfortable in a lot of ways, on which requires you to get uncomfortable in a lot of ways. So these are the ways that you're most likely going to challenge yourself, maybe, to do things or see things, or take on practices, maybe that you haven't in the past, and a lot of that has to do with facing your fears and insecurities. So, for a lot of people that I talk to, this is like the last thing on the list that they want to do.
Speaker 1:They're like I don't want to look at my fears and insecurities.
Speaker 2:I've been trying to avoid that my whole life, but you know, once you can bring those to light, those are the very things that are limiting you. And so, once you bring them to light, they're also the very things that are going to set you free.
Speaker 1:Can you give an example of like something you would do during this time?
Speaker 2:an example of like something you would do during this time. Yeah, we do a lot to build self-worth and self-confidence, self-concept and self-view. So, just like you had said previously of what are you bringing to the table, like, sometimes I'll ask people you know what are, what are your good qualities that you bring? And they, they, they have to sit there and like, well, that's sad, yeah it's actually sad.
Speaker 1:I don't do that, I'm like I'm this and this. It's kind of sad to think that people would have a hard time thinking of good qualities.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's actually overwhelmingly common. And even when they do think of things, they think of like three things and like that's it. So we do a lot of work first off around. Okay, let's build your self-value and acknowledge, like these are all of the ways that you contribute to not just relationships, but to life, but to life. And you know, even just because somebody can, you know, list off a bunch of good qualities about themselves doesn't necessarily mean that they don't still have deep-rooted, limiting beliefs that they're holding themselves back Absolutely. So those are the things that we really dig to get to the root of. I know I am just like you, one of those people where I was like I can tell you, like you know 20 things. I'm like I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this. But just because I can create a list doesn't mean I don't have things inside that are holding me back in life.
Speaker 1:Right, and I think for me, I'll just be a little vulnerable and share mine because I think it's helpful. Um, I can list lots of. I think I have a lot of amazing qualities, like I have no problem bragging about that because I work hard on myself, but I do know one of my most deep rooted issues that holds me back is just my fear of abandonment, having experienced severe forms of abandonment when I was young and throughout my life that that comes into relationships. Of course, when I form a new relationship and I start to entwine my life and my heart with someone right, then it's really easy for those questions to come up.
Speaker 1:Well, these people from my past who are supposed to be core people, who would unconditionally love me, hurt me physically, emotionally, so on and so forth, like, why would I expect this new person on scene not to do the same right? And so it becomes like well, clearly, at some core level, I'm unlovable in the way of creating unconditional love. Right, that would be the core feeling and belief. Like, even though I have worked on all of these great things to become this woman, that I think is amazing. Deep down, no matter how many of those I stack up, a core belief is that it doesn't matter. On some base level, I'm incapable of being loved unconditionally.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, I mean, thank you for sharing that with us, because that is very vulnerable of you to be able to say that, and I do, I'm right there with you. Like that is, I would say that is a core belief, that I would say most people have this sense, you know, and they phrase it a little differently it's like you're either, you don't feel like you're enough, you don't feel like you deserve to be loved in the full way. You know you might say you're like, well, of course I deserve to be loved, right, but deeper we find out we actually don't believe that to be true, right, you know, we're almost like embarrassed to say Right, because we'll say it to our friends.
Speaker 1:Right, we'll say it when our best friend is going through a heartache or when, whatever We'll be like, you're so lovable and it's your birthright to be loved. You're perfect the way you are. But when it comes to our own self, and then what happens, is that negative belief is reinforced by the relationships that we get into right, and then, when we get into a bad relationship and they start to abandon us, we think oh, if I work harder, they'll love me.
Speaker 2:If I work harder they'll stay with me, right, and you get into that love addiction loop, like I'll work harder, they'll love me, and then they love you a little bit more, but then they do the same thing, and then that's where you get into, I assume, the love addiction we kind of come back full circle to the R again, which is the restore, which I also kind of think of as reconnect, and so the more like grounded your own personal foundation is and the more frequently you can come back to that and check in with that, because what happens is especially with I don't know if the listeners in it you're familiar with all the different attachment styles and relationships, but I know I personally am an anxious attachment style and so I also resonate deeply with the abandonment wound and so something that I have been learning, which you know started all throughout the journey from that last relationship but you know I have to be mindful of it. You know, when it presents itself in my current relationship, which I've been in for five and a half years now, is like that wound is always there. It's just how am I going to choose to manage it and think about it and what practices can I do to nurture myself through those feelings and that wound and also being able to observe okay, is this still a safe relationship for me? Is this still a supportive relationship for me? Okay, my answer is yes, my mine personally. So what are the things I can do to help support and nurture myself through this.
Speaker 2:Now maybe, when you're taking a step back, you might say you know what. I've asked my partner so many times. You know to do X, y, z, because you know this is like feels really hurtful to me, or you know whatever. And if they're not responsive, then at some point you do come to a point where you have to decide. Do I want to accept this person and circumstance exactly the way it is and then make the decision to be happy with that, or do I choose to end it and move on and then be happy and okay with that decision?
Speaker 1:Right. Right, and I think something that has come up in several of the past episodes is we've gone over the attachment styles. I also lean towards anxious, but you can have a secure attachment even if you have the tendency towards an insecure attachment style. Right.
Speaker 1:And I think that's important for people to know and to have that hope and not feel like, well, I'm, I'm anxiously attached, so I'm always going to have this insecure attachment. That does not have to be the case, because both you and your partner can have non-secure type attachment styles, but when you're committed to a secure relationship, secure type attachment styles but when you're committed to a secure relationship, you'll do the work to sort of help each other and come up with a solution towards that right, and if that's something that a partner is not willing to do with you, then you know.
Speaker 1:As again you'd say, you have to decide. If you want to stay in it, I suggest you don't stay in it With the caveat though.
Speaker 2:The caveat being you're not leaving it so that you can find someone else to like fill the void You're doing. You're leaving it because you have to kind of reestablish, you know, your base temperature, your ground point, and then reassess. Okay, be clear. What is it that I'm really looking for? That's not an external thing that I'm bringing in Right.
Speaker 1:So you're not leaving a relationship to find another relationship. Folks, you're not breaking up to find another relationship, or, if you've been broken up with, you're not just healing to find the next best thing right.
Speaker 1:It's to become better yourself, to heal yourself and next level your own self so that you are ready for connections that are good for you and you'll be able to see them. You'll be able to see them. You'll be able to see the healthy connection, because you cannot see it if you aren't healthy yourself and if you're not self-aware of the things you're doing that land you back in these relationships that are harmful and in terrible breakups again and again.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, and I think the point is just to like to not repeat your lessons, like, I mean, I don't have anything about, you know, against people getting into new relationships. I think, ultimately, a lot of us want that because we want companionship and we want this, you know, deep connection. Um, it's, it's making sure that we're choosing. So relationships are like mirrors, right. So we want to make sure we're choosing new mirrors, like we don't want to keep looking in the same mirror forever. It's like, okay, we're learning a certain thing about ourselves and about life from this type of person or this relationship. Now I've learned that lesson, I've learned my blind spots. Now I'm going to get to choose to be looking in a different kind of mirror, right.
Speaker 1:Final note what somebody is going through. They broke up last night, they woke up today. This podcast episode comes on. What is your top piece of advice for them? To start their healing right now?
Speaker 2:Top piece of advice is there is going to be a moment where you do need to decide that you're going to help yourself make progress. Grief and progress do not have to be independent of each other. You can still be grieving while you're also doing things to support yourself and your movement forward. So you know, if you're in the wallowing phase and you plan on being there for a while, just know that you're going to feel miserable until you make that decision.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of people want to know, like what is the typical length of time to get over and I know I know this is a tricky question that you probably hate to be asked but is there a typical amount of time to grieve and get over a breakup?
Speaker 2:As expected. I would say everyone is different and it also depends on how open you are to like going deep. It's like, if you're open to like going deep and hard, like sure, let's do this, then you're probably going to have a more speedy recovery. If you're someone who wants to avoid your pain and just be like no, it's probably gonna take you a longer time. Or you're just going to like hop into something and all your shit's still gonna be there. So I mean, as a timeframe, what I can tell you is that when I work with clients, it's for 90 days and without a doubt there is a ton of progress. I mean, would I ever say that any one person is like 100,000% completely healed of you, healed of any traumas they've had in their life or hard times? Probably not, but you have the strategies to know how to manage things when they come up for the rest of your life and within the 90 days, without a doubt, people feel more peaceful, more confident, more clear and just more optimistic about their future.
Speaker 2:You know which I don't know what your definition of like getting over it is, but that sounds like some good progress to me.
Speaker 1:I think so too. And then, what are the top blockers to healing? I think so too. And then what are the top blockers to healing? What are ways in which people hold themselves back from getting over a relationship?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say it's those three kind of problems that we talked about. So number one is not having the right mindset to be able to let go of your ex and move forward. A lot of times that has to do with clinging to the hope or a kind of false sense of what they want the relationship to be versus the reality of it. Number two is have you identified your patterns and coping strategies? Are you living in your blind spots? And number three are you aware of your fears and insecurities and from what place are you making decisions?
Speaker 1:All right, super helpful. Thank you so much. I feel like you have really given myself and listeners a lot of tangible, useful advice on what to do if they are suffering through a breakup or if one is headed towards them. I hope not, but you know heartache is part of life, so can you tell my listeners where they can find you if they want to work with you, how they can contact you? All of your information.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm on all socials at Emi Fortin and it's E-M-M-I-F-O-R-T-I-N. I do also have a brand new free guide, and this is like a guide, you guys, it's not like you know three pages, it's like a full free guide at ageemmyfortincom slash free guide, and if you download that, you'll learn all about the three problems that we talked about today, but also what to do about them, and so if you're interested, too, for learning more about my passionate, tumultuous relationship that we talked about, I do have a memoir. It's called who is your Red Dress, one Woman's Quest to Break Up with a Love Addiction, and I would describe it as kind of a cross between sex in the city meets the world of salsa dancing. So lots of dating adventures, travel adventures and then, of course, that passionate relationship as like the core storyline.
Speaker 1:Yes, and you can get that on Audible as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I narrated it myself, I narrated it myself.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Thank you so much. And so for those of you who are going through it right now or even if you were going through it now you're thinking about gearing up and getting into the next relationship go get that guide, Check your boxes. Don't enter your next relationship and end up back where you were. You deserve better. You deserve to be loved and find love. So, thank you so much for joining me and, to my listeners, I'll see you in the locker room.
Speaker 2:Cheers Ring loop.