The Key to Overcoming Sexual Shame

Have you ever freaked your partner out when sharing your sexual desires? Do you find yourself hiding your fantasies from lovers because you feel ashamed or worried they'll think you are strange? In this Locker Room Talk & Shots Podcast Episode we're changing that narrative, breaking down barriers, and encouraging open, shame-free conversation about sexual desires and boundaries. By the end of this episode, you'll have a path to shame-free sex.

Locker Room Talk & Shots Podcast host Annette Benedetti talk with CJ, an experienced ex-positive coach and mentor who has dedicated herself to the process of stripping shame from sex! CJ shares her wisdom on how to navigate both personal and societal sexual shame. From her own journey to the stories she's heard from her clients, she provides illuminating insights into how shame manifests in our lives. She guides us through the patriarchal influences that fuel the culture of shame, and how this impacts everyone, regardless of gender, orientation, or relationship style.

You can find out more about CJ at  https://www.noshamewithcj

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Chapters

• 0:47 Overcoming Sexual Shame
• 11:10 Sexual Shame and Communication Themes
• 20:13 Navigating Sexual Shame in Relationships
• 33:01 Exploring Shame and Sexual Desires
• 47:58 Exploring Boundaries and Curiosity in Conversations

Transcript

Annette Benedetti: 0:47

Hi, this is Annette Benedetti, your hostess for a locker room talk and shots, the podcast that likes to think of itself as the queer NPR of raunchy women's sex talk. You are about to sit in on the kind of conversations women have on their girls' nights out or behind closed doors, while enjoying delicious drinks and dishing about sex. Think, fun, honest and feminist as fuck, and always with the goal of fighting the patriarchy one female orgasm at a time. Welcome to the locker room. Today's locker room talk and shots topic is the key to overcoming sexual shame.

Annette Benedetti: 1:36

If this podcast had a mission other than, or along with, fighting the patriarchy one orgasm at a time it's definitely been to shed the shame around all kinds of sex vanilla sex I know you guys know I work hard not to shame people about being into vanilla sex. I think it's perfectly fine. Also, all the shame around desires and kinks and fantasies that stray from the vanilla heteronormative scheme of things. And it's a hard task. It's a never ending journey. For most of us it's hard to strip shame from something that we've been taught from day one is wrong and bad if you enjoy it too much or if you do it a certain way or not another way. So I haven't actually addressed specifically how to do that because I don't have those answers.

Annette Benedetti: 2:39

Fortunately, I have someone who has some answers for us today. My guest is CJ from no Shame with CJ. She is a sex positive coach and mentor who facilitates movement away from shame and into authentic expression and acceptance. She brings 10 years of personal and professional experience in non-monogamy and kinked the table and, fun fact, she is a trained professional cutler and group cuddle facilitator. And that is for another podcast, because I know the minute I said that you all had some questions going through your head, but that's not our topic today. Cj, will you just take a moment to say hello to my listeners and tell them a little bit more about you?

CJ: 3:30

Hey, thanks for having me in the locker room. It's so good to be here. So, yeah, I am a sex positive coach and mentor and I love working with people who basically have secret lives and they're afraid to share them with others, and maybe they've been shamed in the past with their partner or just from society, religion, family, whatever it is. I am here to help bring your shame out into the light and make it disappear.

Annette Benedetti: 4:16

I feel like we can all get on board with that, right?

Annette Benedetti: 4:19

I mean, if you're here, I'm going to assume you can get on board with that.

Annette Benedetti: 4:24

So I'm excited to get into this conversation and really dig into not only what people feel shame around, but how we can start to strip our own lives of sexual shame. The minute we're done with this podcast a listener, please listen all the way to the end we will give you those wonderful take takeaways that you're so used to in this podcast, so that when you go home tonight and you get horny and have thoughts or want to do something with your partner, you have some tools to start working on feeling less shame around your desires. So let's raise our glasses and get ready to talk about shameless sex. Cheers, cheers, all right, I want to dive right into it, because I think people think that because I do this podcast, I'm, like you know, all done with the shame aspects of sex, and that is absolutely not true. It is a never ending journey. But what I want to start with is really your journey to becoming a coach who focuses on helping your clients rid themselves or cure themselves I don't even know what we'd call it of sexual shame.

CJ: 5:45

I guess it all begins with my own personal journey and, in particular, after my divorce and going out into the world after that and starting to date again, through many like ups and downs and that experience realizing how much was holding me back. There were a lot of painful moments in that experience, but I kept moving forward and kept putting myself out there and exploring, started exploring kink and non monogamy and was trying to figure out what worked for me and what what it meant for me in the long run. And, of course, I'm still figuring a lot of those things out. It's not a destination. So, yeah, I feel like it started with me and then, more recently, it really became clear to me that through personal interactions and also some of my other work as a phone sex partner, that the patriarchy hurts everybody, not just women, not just, you know, the queer community. It hurts everybody, it hurts straight, it hurts this guys, and my experience has been that a lot of people are afraid to share their desires and they go to other outlets like phone sex or sex workers, and I have no judgment about that. I think that's fantastic and I also think that we can do better creating an environment where people stand up for themselves and don't allow others to shame them for what they are or what they are excited by or interested in. And a lot of that work is something that needs to happen up front, and it's on the person with the thing to say I'm not up for your opinion about this. So, yeah, that's, that's what's brought me to this work. I want to bring things out into the open and out of the shadows, if that's what someone desires to do, and let them know, basically, that they're not alone.

CJ: 8:31

No matter what it is. It can be a kink, a fetish, a relationship style, an orientation, a gender identity, and it can also be something related to, like an STI diagnosis. So many people have, you know, an STI that doesn't go away, like herpes or HIV, and the amount of shame around that and the stigma is still very intense and it's something that's the butt of jokes and it's okay. It's like fat shaming, like it's okay. We're, you know, still allowed to do these things, and there's a lot of people walking around with STI diagnoses and they're afraid to talk about it. But I'm hopeful because I do see a lot of young people having these conversations and outing themselves and I think it's fantastic. So I think I know we can do better for everybody. It's just a human thing that happens, and I want people to know that they're not alone.

Annette Benedetti: 10:34

It sounds like as you were doing your work as a phone sex worker, you heard a lot of shame coming from your customers. Your eyes were open to the amount and the prevalence of shame out there, and was that in people of all genders, or primarily men, primarily men? And so this was your motivation to go in the direction of learning how to coach people away from shame or out of shame and into a more healthy, fulfilling life. Is that correct?

CJ: 11:08

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a. It's a lot of intertwined things that are occurring and even getting back to the STI's, if the goal is for honesty and for communication, as a receiver of information we have a responsibility to hear information and not respond in a shaming or judgmental manner. If your goal, let's say, let's take COVID, for instance, if someone admits that they like early on, remember like the angst of like oh my God, like I don't want to tell people I have COVID, and like it's kind of similar to an STI, right, like you have to admit that you have a positive test and there can be a lot of judgment. Well, like, how did you get it? What did you do? Were you out in public? Weren't you wearing a mat?

CJ: 12:10

You know there's a lot of that kind of thing and when we do those things we can shut people down without realizing it. They're not going to share key pieces of information with us because we've made them feel like they've done something wrong or that they are wrong, right. And the same thing with our sexual identities and preferences and desires. If we share those with somebody, in particular an intimate partner, a spouse, and they have sort of a negative reaction or they're repelled by it. We're probably not going to be sharing it with them in the future and we might be going elsewhere for fulfillment of that desire, and I don't think that that's. The goal for anybody in a relationship is to have secrecy.

Annette Benedetti: 13:19

And so it sounds like you're talking a little bit about. Where the problem comes in is both with the person, who has to be comfortable being honest, and then the receiver, who has to learn how to receive information without letting their own program shame pop in right and to freak out and then scare the other person. Then you've just got a nasty cycle going on, what I'm a good starting point for this conversation. Let's start with men. What are the common things that they come to you with that they need to work on around sexual shame? Like, how is sexual shame showing up in their lives in such a way that they're coming to you with it? Are there common themes?

CJ: 14:03

There are common desires that I've worked with. The things that excite a lot of men that I work with are a desire to be submissive, to serve women, to not be in charge, to be told what to do, to wear women's clothing, to be feminized. Also, forced bisexuality is something very common and it's a lot of it centers around that. I think a lot of it has to do with gender expectations, roles and identities, and I don't necessarily know what their lives are like in terms of what they do for work or their relationships, but I sense that there's probably a lot of hiding and in the shadows and fear of outing themselves.

Annette Benedetti: 15:07

And when it comes to women, what are some of the themes that you're seeing, and I want to kind of contrast the two out of curiosity. What do women come to you with when they ask for your help? Coaching, sexual shame.

CJ: 15:25

Yeah, I think that often they're the flip side of the men's experience, where there is an expectation that women put on their men in terms of them needing to fulfill a certain role. There is a lot of worry around being sexual enough or too sexual for women. I would have to say that one of the main themes for women is around voicing their needs and desires and also having boundaries.

Annette Benedetti: 16:05

And just struggling with feeling ashamed to voice those desires.

CJ: 16:12

I think, yeah, there's definitely potential judgment, like I experienced in dating. I was told once by somebody that men like it when you act like you don't want it. It took me a minute to even understand what that meant and I was like, oh, I'm too desirous, and you are sort of saying that all men have this attitude towards women who are too desirous. And I had the wherewithal in that moment or a little bit later and I said, no, actually that's not the case. I've never found that to be the case and it's okay for you to have that, but talk about yourself. But it was definitely a shaming thing and that was like, okay, we're not in the same place. So I do think that women have that Madonna whore issue that still is around. It's like we want her to be pure and innocent and not really sexual, but at the same time, we want her to be the opposite of that.

Annette Benedetti: 18:23

So Right, right Now, you also coach people who are trans and, I assume, non-binary, and we've been speaking of the binary so far. Do you find that there is something very specific with people who now fall within that by gender spectrum that they're coming to you for assistance with? When it comes to shame? Not necessarily.

CJ: 18:52

I think overall, no matter what gender identity someone has, the common themes are society or family or religion has put shame on us. We have a very schizophrenic relationship with sex in this country. It's like you need to be sexy and desirable and all of these things, but when you actually are those things and you embody sensuality and sexuality, there's a lot of judgment that comes along with that, and I think that's just across the board, no matter who you are.

Annette Benedetti: 19:38

Yeah, it's interesting because it sounds like from what you're saying there may be different desires that are more common with different genders, but the underlying shame and problem is the same it's the inability to vocalize whatever it is you want, whatever it is you want or feel, generally speaking outwardly to the public, but even more problematically with your partner. Right, yes, and I wonder in your experience how common this is. I know in my younger life when I would have a partner who would come to me and wanna try like I'm thinking when I was. I mean, it's been a long time, but when I was younger and the first time my partner I had a partner, be like oh, I wanna have butt sex with you Now. I definitely wanted to try it, but I was afraid because the way they would approach me is like so I don't know.

Annette Benedetti: 20:41

I heard so-and-so talking about this weird thing like anal sex and like and what do you think of that? And then I'd be like oh, that's crazy. Right, I would have a negative reaction, mostly because I was feeling out where they were at and I was afraid if I said, oh, yeah, let's try that, then it would be like even worse, because I'm a woman and I'm definitely not supposed to be thinking about stuff like that. And so there would become this chain reaction of, well, what do you think and what do you think, and oh yeah, weird, gross. Yeah, right, weird gross.

Annette Benedetti: 21:16

But, like I don't know, I've heard it's good. Well, you know what I mean, that cycle of like shame circling each other so we can get to the point where we're like, actually, let's just try putting the tip in tonight, right, like? So how? Where do we start? You have a client come in. I'd love for you to start walking me through. Where do we even start to undo this? I mean conditioning and emotional like abuse that we've received since from day one. How do we even begin to start to strip the sexual shame away?

CJ: 21:56

Yeah, I mean this is you and I are probably and a lot of your listeners are at a certain level of understanding and acceptance of relationship styles and sexual desires, kinks, whatever. I think what's surprising me is how basic a lot of the work is around the discomfort of expressing oneself authentically and even being in touch with what that means or what that is, and not that it's that important to identify a thing as like it's. That's exactly what I am, because it ships right. You know, sexuality is fluid. Our expression of it, our desires, are fluid for most of us not for everybody and just getting comfortable with even acknowledging that there are different things there and I think that that's really where you start and what my work is primarily is a place to try out those conversations right, to let someone be there to listen and to receive the information without a gasp or a judgment, and being able to hear it. I think that's honestly the first step for a lot of people, and I think one of the first steps is to get the person in touch with. It's okay to start to have the conversation with somebody, but not let it all out on the table right away, because we have to prep others, you know, if this is something we've been living with for a long time, or let's say it's even like a relationship style, wanting to open up a relationship.

CJ: 24:20

You know, often one person will start we'll get this idea right and they'll start to read all the books and listen to the podcast and things like that, and then all of a sudden they just like blurt it out to their partner when they've been doing all the research and their way over here and their partner is still back here.

CJ: 24:38

And that can be problematic, because you're sort of like dumping a lot of stuff on somebody that they're not prepared for. And I think when we're talking about shame and sharing a secret or something that's been like part of us for a while, that we're nervous about, we kind of have to prep them for that too and give them the opportunity to even opt into the conversation by saying there's something I want to talk about and it might be difficult to hear like, or something you know let's, can we pick a time to set aside like this is all that we're going to do for an hour and get it on the schedule kind of thing, and also set boundaries around it, like I have an expectation that you can hear this without exploding, freaking out, crying, you know, judging all the things like can we just have a conversation without mainly the judgment? Of course, you can't control someone's emotions, but I'm not up for hearing you know your judgment or opinion around this. It's something that I'm really scared to share with you and I want to be vulnerable.

Annette Benedetti: 26:03

Right. How do you get someone to point where they're ready to even share something they're ashamed of? I mean, is there some amount of inner work they need to do with that shame first to even be in a place to share it?

CJ: 26:18

Yeah, I think everybody's different. I think my coaching isn't about the goal of, like, you have to share things, okay, this is a an individual decision, and what my work primarily is is a place to a safe place to talk about things that you can't share with somebody else and then processing that and determining a path forward. And the path forward might be I'm going to keep it where it is and keep it to myself, and I'm going to support myself in this way. The main thing is that they've had an opportunity to have someone listen to them without the judgment, and then they can make a more clear decision, because often people, I think, have a big secret, you know, or they're going outside of their relationship for an experience, and a lot of it can be very much like a pressure cooker of like I need to do this thing, and then they go do the thing and then it's fine, but they might be feeling guilty about it or something, and I think over time that can build up and this is like a different way of releasing some of that pressure and making decisions that aren't they're not, you know, off the cuff decisions. They're not under stress, they're not in a headspace. That's like, just, I need to get my fix, or whatever it's like more of a just, calm environment and being able to talk about it and then making more rational decisions around.

CJ: 28:09

What does that mean for me in my life and in my relationships? Do they need to know? Do I continue this way? You know, maybe you're not in a relationship but you want to be in a relationship. What if you have a particular type of fetish that's key to your sexuality and you're embarrassed about it? I can just about guarantee that someone's into it. You know, or like there's going to be an outlet for you, and if you can take that as like your own knowledge about yourself in that self work of like, I accept that this is my thing and it's okay. I don't have control over it per se. Who like invite somebody in, right, then then that's an opportunity to invite somebody in instead of trying to push it off to the side. You know it can be an opportunity.

Annette Benedetti: 29:11

Right, because when you find people that accept you in your authentic self, then that shame lessons.

Annette Benedetti: 29:20

Or when you meet other people who have the same interests that you do and get the same pleasure out of the same thing, and you see those people and you think, wow, you're really cool person who's doing amazing things in your life. Maybe I am too, and the fact that my desire is this taboo thing because of our culture doesn't lessen who I am as a human being. Right, right, that makes sense. So you it sounds like you found that sexual shame causes people to even stay away from relationships because they don't know how to reveal the thing that they really want with it, with a partner. And if you can't reveal the thing you really want or you do, and your partner rejects it or judges you and tells you you're a bad person because of it, then you might look to get that taken care of outside of the relationship, secretly, so that you can keep the person you love even though technically they're saying they don't love you the way you are and continue the relationship Absolutely.

CJ: 30:32

And I think that's the point is we may have an aversion to something that someone shares with us initially, and I'm absolutely sure that I've shamed people in the past for a request or for an interest or whatever it was, and I hope that you know it's not something that's been lingering with them. I don't I can't recall anything specific, but in I think, in particular in monogamous relationships, if you are not open to hear your partner's desires and excitement about something and be open about it, that in particular is going to be problematic For sure. So we think we have this fear.

CJ: 31:36

Some people who are monogamous have a fear of losing their partner and have a fear around opening up or whatever it is, or they they really enjoy being partnered with one person. I think if that's your goal, it is probably going to be beneficial to you to be very open minded about exploring sexuality, sexual experiences together and really being open to those conversations, if that's you know, if your partner is bringing these things up. Not everyone has, like, a high desire for sexual experiences, but if they do, the more open you are and can meet them, I think, the better chances of your monogamous relationship style staying intact, you know is going to be.

Annette Benedetti: 32:41

Absolutely, absolutely. I think that monogamy does sort of create a situation where if you are going, if you're going to have someone commit to you solely for life, then you need to be there to show up for their, their needs sexually. And you know, I will say and I say it time and time again, no one owes anyone else sex, ever Period. And I've definitely had many points of it. I've had many experiences in my life where I felt like people felt I owed them sex or owed someone else sex or should have had sex when I was like I don't want to. However, the other thing I have seen a lot throughout my life in monogamous relationships, and it tends to be.

Annette Benedetti: 33:36

This is a very gendered conversation, but in my experience, what I find happens often is at some point in a relationship, the woman decides she really isn't into sex anymore, and I believe 100% it's not because she's not into sex, it's just that she's never experienced truly pleasurable sex for herself. And so she's like I'm done of done, handing over my body to be pounded on by this guy who's not feeding my pleasure, right. And so she's like I'm just not into it anymore. And then the guy is like I, you know, I want sex, not only that, I kind of wanted, like, do these things. But he doesn't feel like you can come to her because she doesn't even want to have sex with him. And now they're both held hostage in a relationship where nobody's needs are getting met.

Annette Benedetti: 34:27

Right, yeah, yeah. And I believe at the heart of that whole situation is shame, right. It starts when a woman can't even say to her partner you know, I want to do these things, I need these things from you. So they start out their sex life with, just you know, him pounding away at her. And then he's over here thinking, I want to like. Well, apparently he wants her to like, spank him and call her mommy.

Annette Benedetti: 34:55

I don't know, but doesn't you know, feel comfortable telling her that and the walls are built, and, and it ends how we all know it ends Right, yeah, yeah. So, on that note, as we head into the last part of this podcast, I think there are two things. I want to make sure that we leave listeners with a on the side of shame people working with their own shame. I would love to leave them with just some tips, things they can implement in their life on their own now, starting tonight, to start working on their shame. Maybe it's how to identify it if they have it.

Annette Benedetti: 35:36

But then I think the second part of this needs to be as a partner, as a receiver of information, as someone who wants to have healthy relationships. How do we make sure we aren't the ones causing shame to others in our lives who we want to have healthy relationships with? So I want to start, obviously, like with the tips for all of us in dealing with our own shame, because we all have it on one level or the other, and then we will move into now make sure you're not the one shaming other people, and here are some ways you can make sure that you're not the one perpetuating shame. Does that make sense? Yeah, all right. Well, let's start with what do you got? What do you? How can I, or anyone at my level or any level, just start working tonight on on my own shame?

CJ: 36:34

I think a great place to start is really thinking about what you want. What you want, not what you think somebody else wants, because often when we do something we're trying to like, second guess what somebody else desires. Like people pleasers in particular, but even just a lot of people just to keep the peace, are looking to the other person for like an indication of what's okay to want. I think getting really deep into yourself, maybe through journaling or whatever it is like, however, those thoughts come up for you, really taking that on board. What is it that you want? What would make your life experience really awesome? Like, and if it's in terms of sex, you know, what is it that's missing? Why do you feel? You know that maybe you don't want to have sex anymore? What is it like? What would make it more pleasurable?

CJ: 37:45

Now for talking about an absence of pain or something like that. That's a difficult thing. I'm not a therapist and I'm not a doctor, you know. I think getting proper medical attention is always key and being very upfront with professionals about your needs in that area is the way to go. But really getting in touch with yourself, like what are your needs, what are your desires, and not having fear around like what does it mean and where does it come from and why. It's not about the why it's about what it is and identifying it without having a lot of negative talk or concern about it, and sitting with that and maybe identifying some if you have asked for it in the past and maybe what kind of reaction you've gotten, identify possible sources of shame and just notice those right, notice where that comes from, but don't get hung up on like the cycle of it. I think that's a great place to start.

Annette Benedetti: 39:00

So identifying the thing, because there might be a couple. I mean, I got a whole bunch of things, yeah, and that's great, and what I'm hearing is like identifying them, especially the ones I have trouble asking for and believe it or not, listeners, I actually do still have trouble asking for some things and not. And then you're saying, once I recognize those things or anybody else not getting hung up in the in the, the judgment piece of like well, why do I want that? What does that mean about me? Where does it come from Exactly?

CJ: 39:45

Because we can often be our own worst enemy in this area too. Where it's like you were self-judging, we have this like oh, I shouldn't feel this way, I shouldn't want that. That's like I'm a feminist, so I can't want that, or, you know, whatever it is.

CJ: 40:03

I can think of a couple of kinks that fall into that oh yeah, Like that's so common and that's the other thing is like recognizing that you're not alone. You know, look for the places. If you feel alone, look for the places where you're gonna find that like you're not alone. It's. You know, there's lots of Facebook groups out there and all kinds of things and like erotica sells and all you have to do is be on like an erotica Facebook page and realize that you're not alone in things that you desire. Right, it's true.

Annette Benedetti: 40:41

It's true, lots of feminists are, you know, wearing collars, getting spanked, have daddies, it's true, and lots of other other stuff. And so we do this, we identify the things, we do the work to not start questioning where does it come from? Like, I don't have daddy issues. That's not why I want to call him dad. You know what I mean, like all that stuff. But that's, that's some real shit. Go back and listen to my podcast on mommy doms, daddy doms.

CJ: 41:19

Yes, it's an excellent one. I really enjoyed that. I loved it.

Annette Benedetti: 41:23

We talk about that Are the outside of just identifying it. Are there any other additional things we can do just sitting with ourselves to help make us feel better about the shame we have attached to those things?

CJ: 41:36

Yeah, yeah, I think, also not allowing ourselves to go into the negative talk, but it doesn't mean that you can't be curious, right, curiosity is key and also playfulness. You know we do. There's a lot of serious shit in our lives. Why can't this be an opportunity for play? Why can't we bring in some play? And maybe the play means solo play around yourself. Maybe it is buying some erotica or listening to erotica. There's so many resources now that we can access and try it out. You know, explore that for yourself, because maybe it's just sort of like I might be into that and figuring that out right, making it playful, making it fun.

Annette Benedetti: 42:43

Right, and another piece you brought up is finding groups, whether on social media or meetups with other people who are in the same thing, because when you see and meet other people who are the same as you, you see that you're okay because they're okay. So that would just be an easy thing to do to start, like, dispelling some of the myths and shame around us. So here's a question before we move on to what we can do to make sure we're not shaming others. If you are not in a relationship yet and you are experiencing shame and concern around a kink or a sexual interest or anything having to do with sex, could it be beneficial to see a sex worker to try out some of those things before seeking out a relationship with someone else? To do some exploratory work with someone who is safe, understands what they're there for and I'm thinking BDSM is most obvious.

Annette Benedetti: 44:38

There are domes you can hire to help you explore if you're anybody interested in being a sub, but any sex worker can help you try out things that you're struggling with and I am saying again, this is prior to being in a relationship Well, I would even say.

CJ: 44:59

It doesn't have to be couched like that either, because even if you are in a relationship, you might need to explore to a certain degree if this is worth, even like perhaps upsetting the apple cart right of the relationship.

Annette Benedetti: 45:18

Okay so, you think, if you're in a relationship and something is coming up, you're in a commitment with somebody and they just don't seem open to talking about it all but you don't want to go and like blow the whole relationship that it might be an option to go ahead and hire a dom or something like that to go outside of your relationship and and consider exploring it.

CJ: 45:41

Well, there's different degrees of that right. There's porn, there's erotica, there's phone sex, there's, you know, ways that you can do those things without necessarily physically interacting with another person. I'm not judging doing that either. I think you have to make that decision for yourself. But, yes, I think that those are good tools, and sex workers are often people who have seen a lot of things and aren't, you know, phased.

Annette Benedetti: 46:12

So that's a couple of things, and some sex workers have skills specifically in that area to help you figure it out. They are skilled folks, they help you explore it.

CJ: 46:24

A lot of you know. We have a lot of wonderful sex therapists and doctors who can assist as well. There are also a lot of horrible experiences that I've heard of with judgment and, as much as you know, a therapist might be trained. They can also hold their own sort of judgments about certain things. So be careful in that area. But also, if you're in the place of feeling very unstable or very concerned or depressed about your particular thing, please seek help, because it can be very scary and depressing for some people and it is important to get the support that you need. Maybe exploration needs to be put to the side. Well, it's wonderful advice.

Annette Benedetti: 47:21

So on the other end of this, let's talk about our job as the information receiver our job to step up and not perpetuate sexual shame and not to accidentally sexually shame other people. I know I know lots of sex positive people, including myself. I've had moments, even on this podcast, where I've been like, oh that's, that could be shaming of another person. It's so ingrained into who we are. So what are some tools we can start using, like right now, to do less of that?

CJ: 47:59

I think one main thing is to pause. Pause before reacting and this is across the spectrum of any interaction with humans, rather than knee-jerk reactions or stuff that we've been holding on to for a while to respond in the typical way when we hear a particular thing. Take a pause, maybe take a breath and determine am I going to hurt this person potentially, or make them feel shame? Also, if you are not in a place to receive information that you think might be coming, you can say I can't hear this right now. You can have a boundary around a conversation, right? We don't need to hear everyone's stuff all the time. Whenever they're ready, whenever they want to share it with us, we can ask are you about to share something that potentially might be a larger conversation that our five minutes don't allow for? Something like that? Just, I think having boundaries around conversation is also important.

CJ: 49:18

And then the other thing is again get curious. Try to be open. Try to be curious. If you don't know what to say, if you're feeling a little bit shocked or repulsed maybe it's like you know can you tell me what that looks like for you? Because we also tell ourselves stories about what something means to somebody else and we might have it completely wrong. You know, let's ask what does that look like for you? What does that mean? What would you envision that sort of thing Getting curious?

Annette Benedetti: 50:01

I think about how many topics might. Initial reaction would have been an ick reaction. But because I'm asking questions, because that's what I'm supposed to do here for y'all, I have to get curious. I have to dig in and answer, asking questions about things that I started out going ew, ew, my favorite example, is semen facials.

Annette Benedetti: 50:28

And then the more I got curious about well, why do you like it? Like? What is it that you are into? And then, even more importantly, why do I think it's icky? Like why, when I don't think x, y and z is yucky, you know, and being curious is such a fun thing to do because it tears down a lot of barriers that you've put up in your own mind, that you didn't even know were there, that are keeping you from enjoying life and bonding with other people you know, yeah, and even you know it might not be something, ultimately, that you're willing to do, it doesn't.

CJ: 51:15

Also, when someone shares something, it doesn't mean you're obligated to participate. They're sharing a part of themselves with you and just see that as a gift, right? Then the question can be like are you expecting me to provide this or to experiment with you and you can determine if that's something that you're willing to do. And if you do decide that, I'm willing to try. You know and it doesn't mean that you're locked in you can try something. You can have a boundary around it. I'm willing to try this for five minutes and if I say read, it stops before that. You know, whatever it is. So just being curious and being open, but also knowing that it's you don't have an obligation to provide that for somebody. But maybe there's something like well, I don't know if I'd be into that, but I think I might be okay with this part of it, and maybe we can meet in the middle somewhere or, you know, give and take a little bit.

Annette Benedetti: 52:30

Yeah, wouldn't that be wonderful if we learned how to do that, if we learned how to that it doesn't have to be all or nothing and that there are always solutions, creative solutions. You know, I think that is something in our society. We get into the black and white a lot and we do our partners a lot of harm. Yes, when we, when we put our relationship into black or white right or wrong, you know, it's just yes or no it could be like, well, yes, but with all of these adjustments to how we're doing it, you know, practice I mean negotiating this a practice setting boundaries.

CJ: 53:14

It's a practice saying no, saying yes, what are you willing to explore? Like? All of that is a constant practice. You know I'm still doing it. Yeah, even though I've had a lot of explorations, I'm still learning and find that I get myself into situations that, oh, I wish I had said this or I wish I had done that, or it's a constant practice.

Annette Benedetti: 53:42

It is, and we're all doing the work. So, listeners, I feel like you've got a lot to work with tonight. You're gonna get out your little notebooks and, if you have a partner, you're hiding some stuff from. You're gonna go and sit down and write down those things that you are afraid to say to them and start exploring them in whatever. And if you don't have a partner, you can do this activity too, because I'm pretty sure all of us are horny little motherfuckers who are afraid to really dive into those things we want to do.

Annette Benedetti: 54:16

I also want to super encourage women out there in particular who have said to themselves I'm done with sex, I don't really want it anymore, I don't really need it anymore To reconsider that and start exploring your pleasure and your fantasies. Sexual pleasure and sex is vital to our health and our longevity, especially post 40 and 50 and 60. Vaginal health, whole health, emotional health. So if you think you've given up, start digging in, all right. Well, so if you want to reach out to CJ and start working on your own shamelessness journey, cj, I'd love for you to tell my listeners where they can find out more about you and get in touch with you if they want to.

CJ: 55:17

Yeah, so basically we're gonna be moving away from shame. That's what we're doing. We're kicking it to the curb and setting it aside so we can figure out how we can authentically express ourselves and who we are. I am doing a lot of work currently on Instagram talking about boundaries, getting to what we want and finding our nos, finding our yeses and also my website is no shame with CJcom On Instagram. It's also no shame with CJ. So follow me. I'd love to interact with you on Instagram I don't care what you have to say and book a discovery call with me. You know we can talk free, discovery call and figure out if working with me is something that makes sense for you.

Annette Benedetti: 56:15

Thank you for that. You can also scroll down to the notes in this podcast and the description and you're gonna find links to CJ's site. You guys know where to find me. I am Locker Room Talking Shots on Facebook and Instagram. You can find my personal Instagram at BingBenedetti. You can find me on TikTok at Locker Room Talk Podcast Also head over to my website.

Annette Benedetti: 56:44

It is Locker Room TalkPodcastcom, and I think that about sums it up. Oh, you can watch this on YouTube. Find me at a net Benadetti over there, my long, long name. Thank you all for listening. Thank you for talking to us and helping us in our journey on losing our sexual shame, cj. Until next time, listeners, I will see you in the Locker Room. Cheers, cheers.