How High Value Masculine Men Can Have Success Dating Modern Women

My guest, family and relationship therapist Kristal DeSantis is the author of STRONG: A Relationship Field Guide for the Modern Man. She walks my listeners through how self-defined masculine men can gain the skills that modern women are looking for in a partner, find a healthy partner, and create a relationship that is healthy, fulfilling and can stand the test of time.

• In this episode you will learn:
• What the definition of a High-Value Man is
• What the 6 pillars of a High-Value Man and a healthy relationship are
• A new perspective on attachment styles
• Toxic traits to identify in others (and yourself)
• How to prepare yourself for dating
• First step towards a better dating life

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:26

Do the sex Think fun, honest and feminist as fuck, and always with the goal of fighting the patriarchy. One female orgasm at a time. Welcome to the locker room. Today's locker room talking shots topic is how to be successful at relationships and dating when you are a self-defined, high value masculine man dating modern women. There is no question that there is a growing dating divide, in the heterosexual world specifically, but all around, more women are choosing to stay happily single than ever rather than dating men, and more men than ever are suffering from an epidemic of loneliness. Now, if this is all new news to you, google is your friend. The data is out there. The old ideas of what makes a man valuable in a relationship to a woman and makes a relationship successful have well, they're outdated and men are really struggling to understand what the hell women want and what helps create a healthy, happy relationship for everyone. Now, fortunately, my guest today has created a field guide for men, a relationship field guide. It's like, literally, this is how you do it, sir, but I would argue that this is fantastic for women who are wanting to date, still holding on to the dream of finding a man. I read this. I love this book by the end of this podcast, you're going to have some really great starter pointers for getting back into dating and doing it well.

Speaker 1: 2:38

My guest today is the author. Her name is Crystal DeSantis. She is a Texas licensed marriage and family therapist, creator of the Strong Model of Relational Therapy and author of Strong a Relationship Field Guide for the Modern man, specializing in couples therapy, emdr for trauma recovery and conflict resolution. She focuses on high-performing men and their partners, offering expertise in sexual therapy, trauma recovery and premarital counseling. With a passion for healing attachment trauma and improving communication, she is dedicated to guiding clients towards stronger, healthier relationships. Crystal, I am so excited to talk to you. I would love for you, though, to take, before we jump in, just a moment to tell my listeners a little bit more about you.

Speaker 2: 3:31

Yes, so I'm Crystal, I live in Austin and I am married. I have been with my partner now for like we're coming up on 14 years together, but before I met my husband. But before I met my husband I was not much of a dater because I didn't know how. And really getting into the field of marriage and family therapy for me started with my own personal journey of trying to understand what do I do, how do I be in a relationship, how do I be a good partner and how do I find somebody who is going to be capable of building a strong relationship with me. So that's kind of my journey into the field of marriage and family therapy. And yeah, I've been a practicing clinician for 10 years now.

Speaker 1: 4:21

And you've written this amazing field guide. It's for men, I mean, it's designed for men, men, I mean it's designed for men, which is, I think, exciting and interesting, and I'm definitely sure that, should I ever date a man again, I'm going to. First thing I'm going to do is be like you want to date me Right here, for real. So we're going to get into that. So, listeners, for real. So we're going to get into that. So, listeners, I want to encourage you to really stay channel at Annette Benedetti, where you can see the book, you can see us, and it's very easy for you to leave comments and questions right in the comments section of my videos. Of course, if you have questions, comments, you can always email me at Annette at SheExploresLifecom.

Speaker 1: 5:24

But let's get into it. Let's talk about how self-proclaimed high value masculine men can start dating us again. Yes, let's do it. Cheers. All right, there is a lot to cover. There's a lot to cover. As I was reading this, I'm like I just want to sit here and read the book to everyone, but I want to start with. First of all, why did you decide to focus on a guide for men?

Speaker 2: 5:52

So what I noticed was that there are a lot of resources available to women.

Speaker 2: 5:59

A lot of therapy, you know, historically has been directed towards women a lot of self healing, self love, information.

Speaker 2: 6:10

Again, I don't know that men have been excluded, but I think that the demographic of these offerings have tended towards being really attractive to women. So what I noticed when I would work with specifically heterosexual couples, if I wanted to give resources for both partners to learn, you know, better communication skills, a little bit more self insight and self knowledge, there was just so much available for women and hardly anything available for men, like hardly anything about male sexuality, hardly anything as far as male friendships, support groups for men, and you know so I just I really I mean strong the model of relationship therapy. Obviously I use for both partners, I think everything like you said, you know women can get a lot out of this book as well. But I really wanted to direct it to men, to speak to the specific issues that I saw men were facing, facing just also because I think there was a gap in the field and especially a woman speaking to men in a hopefully a very supportive and loving and encouraging way. I really wanted to kind of put that out there.

Speaker 1: 7:20

Yeah, it's. It's really an impressive book. It's easy to read and it is in no way whatsoever condescending. And also, I think that what you did beautifully in this book is you were able to capture sometimes what women don't even, we don't even realize. These are the things we're looking for. We know them, but we can't put them into words. And you took, I think, all of the things we're looking for and you put them in towards so that we can also go. Yeah, I was like yeah, yeah, that's it. I couldn't have verbalized that before reading this, so that's really wonderful. So let's talk about what the strong model of relationship therapy is.

Speaker 2: 8:04

In creating the strong model I really wanted to kind of focus in on. You know, what does the research say about? What are the fundamentals of a healthy, long, lasting, fulfilling, successful relationship? Right, like, fundamentally, what are the ingredients of a healthy relationship? So you know, everybody's relationship is going to be different, so there is no one size fits all as far as, like, this is how you should live, this is what you know partner A should be doing or partner B, but I really wanted the fundamentals. So strong is an acronym that to me, represents the six pillars of what the essential ingredients are of a long term, healthy, successful, fulfilling relationship.

Speaker 1: 8:47

We are going to talk about what those pillars are, because that was I mean, you had me at the pillars. But let's start with. What are the traits men used to see in themselves as valuable to a woman? Because I want to contrast what used to be to what is now. So you, I think, gave the three Ps of how to be a high value man, what they used to be and what you'll see touted all over TikTok and online, these male podcasters who are like if you want to be a high value man, here are the things that women want, and we have been saying loud and clear that's not what we want, and you, in the strong method, have presented here's what we want. So can you share what used to be the pillars of a high value man and now what we see as high value?

Speaker 2: 10:30

The three Ps which I write about in the first kind of intro prologue of the book comes from, you know, men's studies, right? So I didn't come up with these. These are what men self-identify as the ways that they inhabit their masculinity, and it's being a protector, being a provider and being a procreator. So, these three Ps, right. So in the past, if a man had a high paycheck, right, it's like if you think about back in the day, arranged marriages, all the families would be like, oh, that guy's got a big farm, you know, let's send our daughters to him. Right, he can provide. And the other one, protector, right.

Speaker 2: 11:05

If a guy was the biggest guy and he could physically, like, fight off wolves and bears and you know other, you know forces, other men that might try to take, you know, his wife or his children, that was also a really valuable trait, right, being a physical protector and then a procreator, right, because there was the idea that of course women want to have babies, so you got to be able to give them what they want, right? So if a man was, you know, virile, if he was, you know, studly, this was something that was attractive because ostensensibly, that was like fertility, right. So these three colors of masculinity were for a long time kind of what men were taught, that's what women want and that's what you know, that's what your value is is you're a protector, you're a provider and you're a procreator.

Speaker 2: 11:52

Yeah, but that's not the case anymore, because you know, the world has changed and it's changed very quickly, and this is one of the things that do. Women need protection anymore and I think, like you mentioned, there are lots of guys on social media or TikTok that are saying, well, yes, you need us to protect you, and then there are women that are saying, wait, from who?

Speaker 1: 12:12

Other men, other men or you.

Speaker 2: 12:15

Is this like the mafia, where you pay, then they don't beat you up. Like you know, um, it's like a protection racket, like we don't really, we don't really need that anymore, like we can protect ourselves. Like you know, I write in my book the rising rates of gun ownership among women, exactly, um. And then the same thing with provision. Right, a guy has a high paycheck. Well, now, a two income household is the majority of most families. I mean just the reality in this economy, right and so, and also the. The toll that it would take for a man to be a single income provider for a family is also often not what necessarily a woman is looking for, right, because that also might mean that you know he's gone 80, 70, 60 hours a week, right, and so you know that's also something it's like if you just show up with your paycheck. Is that enough in a relationship these days?

Speaker 1: 13:12

Well, and now women are making their own money, so we're like you know, like do I want to give up all of these other things I want, just for your additional money, right?

Speaker 2: 13:23

Yeah, exactly. And then the procreation part obviously, like you know, is a slightly different nuance to what women are looking as heterosexual women who want children are looking for in a potential partner. It's not enough that like, oh, you're willing to give me a baby, it's, would you also like to stay and parent this child with me? Right, you know? And so that's really what I'm talking about in this book is like and that's part of why I like the acronym strong, and I really wanted something that emphasizes that. You know, I think there's a misconception that you know, women don't want strong men anymore. Women want to be the only strong ones and we want men to just shut up and, like, take their place, you know, kind of as a subordinate, like the roles are just reversed, like no strong men and strong women are going to be equal partners when they can both fully inhabit their strength in ways that are healthy and supportive and, you know, cooperative and collaborative, as opposed to who's in charge and who's the subordinate here.

Speaker 1: 14:38

Right, and so let's talk about the acronym. Strong, like what you know, and I do feel like when a man inhabits these, I guess I'm calling them traits that is what I think women are valuing more in a man and see as masculine. So can we talk about the acronym, which I found very easy to remember because I was like, yeah, those are the things I want, and it starts with my favorite one. So safety, safety and security.

Speaker 2: 15:09

So the S is for safe Absolutely being a man who is able to keep their partner safe. I think that really embodies all of these things. But that doesn't mean physical protection, necessarily Emotional protection, that sense of stability and security. You're not going anywhere. You know how to express your emotions safely, like safety encompasses a lot when it comes to setting a good foundation for a healthy relationship. So that's really step one. Do you know how to show up safely? Step two is trust right, are you able to build trust and be trustworthy in a relationship? Right, so that's T.

Speaker 2: 15:51

R is respect, which you know. You really can't have a healthy relationship without respect, and one of the things I also noticed as I was writing this book and doing research is you know, when we talk about love, what love feels like. Often for men, they translate it to it feels like I'm respected in the relationship, right, and so that's really where I wanted to dive into respect as mutual respect and then respecting boundaries. And how do you earn respect rather than demand respect? And how do you earn respect rather than demand respect? Right, so safety, trust, respect. And then O is for openness right, which is again that idea that you don't stop growing as an individual when you become a married person or a partnered person, and the person that you are when you're 25 and saying your vows is not going to be the same person at 40 or 50 or 65. So continuing to be open in your relationship really allows for you to grow alongside each other and not grow apart, which I saw. So many couples unfortunately end up growing apart.

Speaker 2: 16:52

Nurturing is that one kind of? I think that was my favorite chapter to write, because you know there's this misconception that men are not nurturing, and the way I write about it in the book is you know men are absolutely nurturing, like there are men in nurturing professions all day. And you know being a good father, being a present parent, you have to be nurturing, right. So let's stop this nonsense that men are not nurturing and let's say like inhabit that in the relationship because that's your legacy. Nurturing your legacy as a man is not putting your name on a building, it's do your children want to talk to you after they leave home? Right, and do you know how to nurture your friendships and your relationship with your partner, like that's your legacy, right? And then G is generosity, which is kind of the like fairy dust of the relationship. I call it right. It's like, you know, when you have the safety and you have the trust and you have the respect, you have the openness and you're nurturing each other, then generosity is kind of the fun stuff. It's like the cherry on the top, where it's all the little things that make a relationship feel good. Right, yeah, which I think that's the essence of like.

Speaker 2: 18:07

When a relationship is working, you automatically look for ways to make your partner's life a little bit better. And that's that like when you look at, you know, older couples or people that have been together, you could just tell like I think they have a good relationship. It's often because we're tracking these little moments of generosity hey, babe, I grabbed your water. Hey, here's your blanket. Or hey, I want to show you something outside because you know, I knew you would like it. Here's your blanket. Or hey, I want to show you something outside because you know, I knew you would like it. It's these little tiny moments of going out of your way to make your partner's life just that little tiny bit better, that little you know. Ah, yeah, fairy dance.

Speaker 1: 18:41

Yeah, and I think that the interesting thing about the generosity is which some of this? You can see how it parallels the three Ps, right? So like providing, you know, giving that kind of old approach to it is sometimes what men, but there's no security, there's no trust, there's no respect or openness, then the generosity feels like a bribe. It's a bribe to get over the fact that I don't trust you. I don't feel secure day to day or safe day to day that you are going to stay with me because we haven't built that foundation with me, because you know we haven't built that foundation. But so you can really see where it started out. When we were in, you know, women weren't free to support themselves and so we were dependent on men to provide and to protect and to impregnate us rather than have great sex with us, which I do want to talk to you about.

Speaker 1: 19:53

But you can see the logical move from that to now that we get to be free human beings and earn money and live our lives. Now those things aren't necessary and we want this more fulfilling life. And in this book, folks, she really takes you through the steps Like what does it mean to create safety and security? And how do you do that? How do you create like it's not, like? She just tells you trust, this is what women want. Well, no, shit, right. No, I mean, you really define what that means and then how and what you'll realize.

Speaker 1: 20:31

I believe any human reading this is like oh, that is what I also want, and by cultivating these things in myself, I'm going to be a happier person on my own and more stable on my own and more ready to be in relationship with someone else, and I think that's really wonderful. What I don't want to miss talking about here is in your book. We hear the term high value man thrown around a lot, especially on social media, in the shorts, in the reels, in the TikToks, especially from these fucking douchebag male podcasters out there touting what it means to be a high value man, which I would argue it stems from the patriarch and it's so damaging to men. You literally define what it means to be a high value man, and I think this will surprise men especially. But what would you say defines being a high value man?

Speaker 2: 22:19

I think what I say in the book is like by definition, a high value man is a man that is wanted by women, right?

Speaker 1: 22:27

Generally found desire by us. You are not like. Whatever these dudes are saying, it does not matter. Ultimately, being high value man is like in, in and again in the heterosexual relationship, realm is what women define as high value and attractive and chaseable.

Speaker 2: 22:47

Exactly, and so that's part of also what you know I did also put in the preface is, like I'm not telling you how to be a man to other men. Like that's not the message of this book. If you want to be a man that impresses other men, then sure go work 80 hours a week, get that Maserati, get all those things that impress your bros. That's fine. Like I have no problem with that. If that makes you happy, go nuts. But if you're looking to impress a woman, women are impressed by different things and that's also part of why I, you know, like you mentioned, I don't just name the problem in this book, I also lay out concrete steps is because what I've noticed in working with men versus women and working with couples is that, you know, sometimes women focus on naming the problem and defining the problem problem and defining the problem, and often what I noticed from their male partners is like okay, okay, okay, but what? But then what? What do I do? And so I really wanted to kind of you know again, it's a field guide, it's more I wanted to make that bridge between I'm not just telling you that there's a problem, I'm also giving you the guide to get there and become one of these high value men that are not just successful at attracting a partner, because that's also the other thing that you know.

Speaker 2: 24:03

A lot of these oh, I don't know, these podcast bros are like, you know, women are attracted to blah, blah, blah, and it's like, yeah, but but you know, are you playing the short term? Are you playing the long term, like what's the point of being attractive to like thousands of women if you can't make a relationship work with any of them? You know, like, what's your end goal? And these are two very different things. And again, if your goal is to be attractive to you know thousands of women, again, then maybe listen to the men that are successful in that. But if you want to be attractive to women who are looking for equal partners and you're looking to be a high value man when it comes to having a family, looking for equal partners, and you're looking to be a high value man when it comes to having a family, being a successful husband, being a successful partner, then maybe listen to a woman At least a marriage and family expert.

Speaker 1: 24:50

Well, and I would also say you can be physically attractive to thousands of women, but what does it matter if every time you go to date one and you start talking to them and interacting with them and a relationship with them, they get the ick because, oh, you're a pretty package but you don't have any attractive traits. And look, you'll see it again and again. Women beautiful, successful, desirable women, high value women are oftentimes with partners who aren't just aesthetically pleasing, who like sometimes you're like, wow, that dude is not good looking, but then he is attractive to many women because he has all of these traits that you are listing in the book and he embodies and gives off the aura of a dude who understands that we want security and we want trust and openness and all of those things. So you know, because I'm sure men listening are like, well, yeah, I want thousands of women to find me attractive, but they don't want you.

Speaker 1: 25:57

There's a difference between going he's pretty or for a moment, he's fun, and then being like I desire him and I want to bang him, and love him and you know all of that stuff.

Speaker 2: 26:10

So and I think, again, the same thing of you know what I wrote in the book as well for men is you know it's also really important that you know there's wrote in the book as well for men is you know it's also really important that you know there's not all women are healthy either, right?

Speaker 2: 26:24

There are also women who don't have these skills, and so if you're really looking to be a true high value man, you also need to be able to distinguish who is a high value woman, who can also have the ability to provide you with emotional safety, to build trust with you safety to build trust with you, who can have mutual respect with you.

Speaker 2: 26:42

Again, you're also a person and that's also what I write in here is that you know this is not just a hey man. Here's all what you're doing wrong and here's how to fix yourselves. It's also you know, when you know what healthy looks like and what healthy feels like, because you've worked hard on yourself to embody that, you will also not be attracted to women who are only looking at you as a paycheck. That will no longer be attractive to you, right? Even if she's the most beautiful woman. Same thing, like you said, like you can see a beautiful, aesthetically pleasing individual and then get to know them and be like oh, I feel objectified, I don't feel respected, this person is not safe, they're not having any stability in their life.

Speaker 1: 27:24

Definitely I'm not going to partner with them. Yeah, you actually did outline the things for men and women. This is again where I think it really applies to all of us to look for in yourself first, I mean, and I feel that's the way it was stated in yourself first. I mean and I feel that's the way it was stated Like you've got to make sure these are kind of toxic traits within ourselves that we have to deal with and we've got to take care of our own business before we partner with someone else, and then to also be able to identify in other people. So let's go back to that bullet list that you gave of the things to look for in yourself, to deal with and take care of, and that the warning signs in other people.

Speaker 2: 28:02

These are kind of like the big red flags that I would say like if a partner is exhibiting any of these, like they are not stable enough to begin a healthy relationship Again, not that they don't deserve love, but also check in with yourself, right? So these were untreated mental health issues, untreated physical health issues, impulsive or violent behaviors out of control, alcohol or substance use, financial instability, ongoing active affairs or other betrayals or other ongoing unmanaged stressors, because all of those things like if you address them first for yourself, you're already ahead of the game when you get into a relationship.

Speaker 1: 28:47

Right. So my question would be with those like it's life we're going to like, so let's say so. For an example, I've been very open about like one of my lifelong mental health struggles is anxiety and you know I've always sort of dealt with it by going to counseling. I've done a lot of work around it and there are times when it's great and then there are times in life where you know it peaks and comes in and out. I mean in the same like we're all going to go through financial ups and downs and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 29:18

The same like we're all going to go through financial ups and downs and stuff like that. So so when you're talking about these things, it's not as though we insist that everyone we date have them dialed in at a hundred percent, is it? Or I mean, we have a little bit of understanding for humanness, but we don't want them out of fucking control. Like Like you know what I mean Like someone has absolutely no money coming in, has no stability or home, or right now they're in a deep depression, or the ongoing affairs and stuff like that Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 29:50

And this is where I really was specific in saying like untreated or unaddressed right, Because you know, the minute you say I have anxiety and I'm addressing it, then you can also tell a partner what you need from them and what they can expect from you. Yes, Right, as opposed to I don't know. I'm just going to show up and see how it goes, and see how it affects the relationship, Right. And then your partner and you both find out the hard way.

Speaker 1: 30:21

Absolutely, or I mean I think a lot, especially women, because women just go to therapy more than men and I think men are starting to do that more and more.

Speaker 1: 30:31

But I feel like a lot of times one of the biggest complaints women we me I have when I get in a relationship with a man is like, suddenly I'm like I think you've got something going on that you are either in denial about or have not addressed properly and now I'm fucking dealing with it and I don't know how to tell you I think you've got this and you need to deal with it because it's wrecking our relationship and one of the ways that I think women are really starting to become more familiar with that.

Speaker 1: 31:03

Before we're just like, oh, he's just an asshole. But now one of the things and you did address in this book there's a growing pool of knowledge that we're all finding out about our attachment styles. Out about are attachment styles and because attachment styles are so easy for us to see in our mind and define when we're in relationship with other people, that's when we start going oh yeah, something's going on, because you are clearly, you know, we Google like, oh, you're anxious attachment or you're, you know whatever, fearful, avoidant. And so now you know yes, they do need therapy, they do need to deal with this, or we are. We are never going to get that S part, the safety part, in our relationship nailed down.

Speaker 2: 31:49

Exactly and also you know part of in this book, and doing that journey on your own is you get to also. Then you get to know yourself on a deeper level, without the filter of somebody else telling you who you are, because that's also something. And I've heard from women, I've heard from men that you know, my ex-partner told me I might have bipolar. My ex told me that he thought I was, you know, disorganized attachment or that I had, you know, bipolar, you know borderline or you know we get all these.

Speaker 2: 32:23

I see people that get all these diagnoses from previous relationships and it really kind of rattles their sense of confidence or their sense of self. And so really also part of this is you know, when you go into a relationship no matter what mental health issue or physical health issue or you know past, you're bringing with you. The most important tool you can bring with that is self-awareness of how it's impacting you and how you're handling it, so that if a partner tries to take that part of you over or tries to use that part against you, you can also recognize that as, oh, that's not a healthy person for me, because I'm letting them know that, like I know I have anxiety. I'm managing it with the help of my doctor. I know how I'm affected and I can tell you how. I would like you to show up for me and if I notice you start weaponizing that against me. Oh, unhealthy, not safe.

Speaker 1: 33:15

Next. I think that is something that only now I'm turning 50 this year have I been able to nail down. That thing has happened to me so much throughout my relationship life and I do get rattled because I you know when, when I was younger and diagnosed like having having anxiety. Having something like that was very shameful.

Speaker 1: 33:40

It's changed as time has gone on and people have been more open about it but, um, I'd be in relationship with someone who I felt wasn't treating me well and, you know, would be trying to address them and be like, well, you're just, you're anxious, your anxiety is like out of control, you're being needy because you're anxious and I'd be like I feel like it's my gut telling me something's going on, but then I'm like, well, but I am anxious and maybe it is me and I've had that weaponized a lot, and so I love that in this field guide and I think, guys, it's again. I think we, like I've known about my anxiety since it started. The minute I felt like something was wrong with me, I sought help, but men just aren't doing that as much.

Speaker 2: 34:29

Yeah, and this is something else, too, that I really want to emphasize. The difference between, you know, men and women is, you know, sometimes I hear this, right, it's like, why don't men go to therapy? One of the things that I learned men and women is, you know, sometimes I hear this, right, it's like, why don't men go to therapy? One of the things that I learned about men and listening to men is often the prevailing like, underlying why they don't go is because there's a like a, I guess, an ideology that nobody actually cares about men's issues. Right, Like, if a woman is in trouble, if a woman is in pain, if a woman is crying, everybody stops and says oh my gosh, how are you? What can we do? What do you need? Can we help you?

Speaker 2: 35:10

If a man is and there have been, you know, studies and research on this if a man is going through some stuff or having a bad day through some stuff or having a bad day, the reaction and the response is different, right, and so again, society, masculinity, patriarchy, all of that, the socialization of men's emotions, also the way that maybe men won't be necessarily vulnerable and asking for help, maybe it'll show up as anger when they're not having a good day rather than vulnerability, whatever it is. But I think we also need to acknowledge how it's not. Sometimes men just won't go because they're being stubborn or they're being egotistical. Often it's this real underlying idea of masculinity that hey, nobody cares, man. So just shut up and go back to work, try to be more useful, try to be more productive, and maybe you won't feel so bad about yourself. Nobody cares.

Speaker 2: 35:58

And that is really also one of these, like a serious underlying kind of issues when it comes to men seeking help, because maybe they've also experienced going to therapy and having a clinician who didn't understand men's issues and, you know, tried to give them advice that women would need and it doesn't work because men are not socialized in the same way. They don't have, you know, the same avenues for support. So I think that is also something that you know as a clinician and in the clinical field and there is a little bit more of awareness of that and I'm hoping too that you know for the average person they can also start to maybe hear for men, hear that no, you absolutely do matter and there are people who care. And then for women to maybe a little bit more acknowledgement that you know it do matter and there are people who care. And then for women too, maybe a little bit more acknowledgement that you know it's not as easy for men sometimes to get the help that they need because the resources are not there.

Speaker 1: 36:56

So, going back to attachment styles, so with the strong method and looking at things in the framework of the secure, the safety, trust, openness, those are kind of the pillars of the health, of masculinity of relationships. What is your approach to the attachment relationship, attachment issues?

Speaker 2: 37:20

So, like I read in the book, I always want to make sure that people know that it's. It's not a diagnosis, it's a default, right. So that might so, having anxious attachment or having avoidant attachment, or having disorganized, that might be your default, but it is not a diagnosis. So part of that is when you get into a safe relationship which, again, there are studies about this that if there is a secure partner in a relationship, the other person's tendency becomes more secure, right? So even if this partner might identify as like well, I tend to be anxious or I tend to be avoidant, if they are with a secure partner in a safe relationship, they become more secure. Their attachment style changes, and so I think that was something that I was like.

Speaker 2: 38:06

There is so much hope there that you know, even if, let's say even both, let's say both of you have insecure attachment styles, but if you work together to create security in your relationship, you can find trust in that attachment bond that you've created, created Right, and so that's what I like to say. It's like that's your the, the attachment is the bond. I mean, if you think about it, an attachment, like the definition of it, is the thing that connects two points Right, and so that's really what I. I really love that. Like it's not your diagnosis, it might be your default because, like that's what you've seen your whole life is. Maybe only people that built you know avoidant or anxious relationships. So it's going to be a little bit more of a hurdle for you to know what it means to feel secure. But if you have a partner that's willing to do that work with you, regardless of their attachment style, you can have secure attachment in your relationship.

Speaker 1: 39:04

You can have secure attachment in your relationship and in this strong model, someone might be like well, if we both have insecure attachment styles, how will we figure out how to be secure? You take this book and you start with safety, the S, and she literally maps out like, how do you create safety? Like, how do we cultivate this? What does it mean? Because I think that's super important. No, it doesn't just mean I need you to, like, beat people up who look dangerous and then trust that's going to give you more security and, like you, go through this and it really did.

Speaker 1: 39:59

Reading this gave me a lot of hope, because I know that I tend towards anxious. I also know that I get triggered by certain you know other attachment styles, and so I've often been like, well, am I doomed? And then, reading this book, I was like fuck, no, I'm not really helpful in the context of people who are. You know, because right now, attachment styles are all the rage and everyone's trying to figure them out and how to end up with. Here we go. Here's a nice little guidebook for you. I want to go on. There are two more things that I want to cover before we're done. Number one you did talk about desire and sex, and how to cultivate that as a man and I like.

Speaker 1: 40:28

Obviously you touch on. There is an orgasm gap out there, a pleasure gap between, especially and particularly in heterosexual relationships. Women are not happy. They are not getting the orgasms or pleasure they want and men are just like what do I do? Not getting the orgasms or pleasure they want and men are just like what do I do? So can you talk a little bit about your approach to desire good sex and pleasure for men? What do they need to have their eye on to fix some of this?

Speaker 2: 40:57

There's libido, right. Which is kind of what we talk about is drive, which you know fluctuates throughout your life. It fluctuates, you know, based on hormones, pregnancy, you know, childbirth, illness, stress, et cetera. So that is one thing. And so when I talk, when I hear people, especially heterosexual couples, men they talk about, like, oh, women just don't have libidos, like men just have a higher sex drive, and that's just how it is, I'm like, eh, you know, we can talk about drive, we can talk about libido, but desire is something completely different.

Speaker 2: 41:31

And when you talk about desire, that's something that you don't have to convince people to desire. What gives them pleasure, right? It's like, if somebody gets pleasure out of the experience of being intimate with you, out of the experience of being intimate with you, you don't have to try that hard to convince them that they like it, because they actually like it. Right. And so, really focusing on, you know, have you explored what gives your partner pleasure? Not just focus on, you know, your orgasm, or the fact that, like hey, studies say, you know, couples need to have sex once a week. Or, you know, my drive drives this boat as far as how often we have sex. Let's focus on pleasure. Are you having a good time? Do you feel connected? Is your partner's body responding? Are you taking the time to explore your partner's body and really figure out what turns her on, what gives her pleasure?

Speaker 1: 43:15

Men are more likely to have.

Speaker 2: 43:18

Yeah. So spontaneous desire is the kind of like, huh, I'm in the mood, I could do it right now, versus responsive desire is much more contextual. Right, you need more context, you also need a little bit more, and then this is what we talk about, like foreplay. Women might need more foreplay to really start to get in the mood, because a lot of women identify as having responsive desire, so they will respond to the pleasure they're experiencing and it builds from there, versus the spontaneous which is just you know I could totally do it right now.

Speaker 1: 43:54

Like men, men are spontaneous. It's a spontaneous Like they. They see something pretty and they get hard. And women tend to need to be titillated and have the mood set and I felt like you get. And so what you said and I believe this is true that women are more likely to have responsive desire, desire comes, getting in, the mood comes as a response to something they experience, see, feel, and so men are like well, what do I do about that? And you gave a great metaphor, which was can you share that cooking metaphor?

Speaker 2: 44:34

Can you share that cooking metaphor? Yeah, so I talked about, you know, when you sometimes you're hungry and you're just hungry, right, that's kind of like the bodily response, the libido. You're just hungry. But other times you might be like I don't know, I don't know if I'm really hungry, but then your partner starts cooking. So they say, why don't you just sit there and I'll pour you a nice glass of wine? And they set the mood. They just sit there and I'll pour you a nice glass of wine, and they set the mood, they put on some music, they light some candles, they start, you know, stir frying, some herbs and garlic, and suddenly all the smells and all the aroma. And then after a little while you're like I think I actually now I'm getting a little hungry after I've started smelling this, and I think everybody can relate to that, right, you don't really realize you're hungry and suddenly, you know, you walk by a bakery and you're like, oh my God, I'm starving, right.

Speaker 2: 45:25

And so, again, don't just rely on the spontaneity, on the spontaneity of like my body wants the thing because I'm hungry, but having the skill to say, let me turn you on a little bit, let me, let me create a little bit of a environment. Let me turn on some smells, some music, let me play with more of the senses so that I'm setting the scene where you can actually then get turned on and start to feel that sexual hunger, as opposed to hey, I've got a microwave burrito, you want me to microwave you one? You're like, I'm good, yeah, I'm good, like if I was in the desert. Yes, I would take the microwave burrito, but, like, I think I'll skip.

Speaker 1: 46:06

Right.

Speaker 1: 46:06

I think it's a perfect metaphor, so to help men understand how most women, especially after, like the beginning of a relationship, how their desire works and what you need to learn to do.

Speaker 1: 46:22

Of course, there's so much more to it than that, but that's a nice little put it in a capsule. And finally, before we close out this podcast, one thing I really want to talk about is repair, and this is, I think, one of the best notes to end a podcast on, because for some men, maybe you're in a relationship right now, or you've been trying to build one, or you're in a long-term one and more and more women are choosing divorce, more women choose to leave relationships than men, and so you've gotten to this point in this relationship and you can tell she is wanting out, or you've been dating and you've had issues and not been able to resolve them. Repair I really want to end with the steps to repair. Men don't seem to know how to repair, and I've seen it in relationships where something's broken and they just don't know what to do with it, so they do nothing. They do nothing and it ends.

Speaker 2: 47:30

So repair again another acronym and it starts with remorse, right, which I say if you're remorseful, you also stop the behavior, right? You can't say I'm sorry and keep going back and doing the thing that's harmful. So number one is remorse. Number two is empathy, right, so understanding how your actions hurt your partner. And that then goes to P, which requires perspective taking, right, putting yourself in their shoes, which is that you know, embodying empathy, right, how, how tell me, not just about how my action hurt you, but how that has maybe impacted your ability to trust me. Now, right, so R-E-P. And then, so that's where I talk about, like just an apology, r-e-p, you know, throw a couple of reps in there remorse, empathy, perspective taking. But if you really start to notice, or you and your partner or she maybe you hear from her where she's like this is the last time, like I can't take this anymore, this behavior, you keep apologizing, you say you're empathetic, you tell me that you can see how it hurts me, you put yourself in my shoes, but then you go and do it again, like this doesn't work for me, okay. So then we need to make sure that we finish out the whole acronym of repair, which is then accountability right, what does actually taking accountability, not just apologizing what would accountability look like?

Speaker 2: 48:53

And then the next part is then investigation. Maybe you need to do a little investigating for yourself. Like, why do I keep doing this behavior? My partner maybe has clearly communicated it keeps hurting her, why do I keep doing it? Right? And that's that part of the accountability is you have to investigate your why. I know, you know. So my orientation as a clinician is also there's always a why behind behavior and often what I see. That you know. If you can't explain why you're doing the thing, your partner will make up their own explanation. And it's probably because you're a jerk, because you're an asshole who doesn't care, Right? So do your own investigation, because that's also valuable for you of like, why do I keep doing the thing that? I know it's hurting my partner? Maybe I'm not proud of this behavior, Maybe I feel shame around it. What's underneath there that I'm still doing the thing right? And so that's also, you know. Give yourself a chance. And then the R is rinse and repeat Again. We're not robots. We don't, you know, snap to and change immediately, but doing it over and over and continuing to work on changing your behavior and figuring out all of these steps of you know remorse, empathy, perspective, taking accountability, investigation and then knowing. You rinse and repeat. You got to do it again.

Speaker 2: 50:13

Like I mentioned in the book, it's like stitches, right? If there's a wound, you don't just put one stitch in and be like, okay, you're good. It's like if it's a deep wound, if you've really hurt your partner, there might be multiple stitches that have to you know, fully repair that wound and so prepare for that right Is that the process of repair? It takes longer than you might expect, especially if the wound is deep, so don't get frustrated. That's also the thing, right. It's like, well, if you're that resilience of, if I've screwed up and I want this relationship to work and I'm working on repair, it might be a minute.

Speaker 1: 51:02

Right, and that is where the whole idea and I hear women say it all of the time and have to get it through their heads Like if he wanted to, he would- If he wanted to fix things, he would.

Speaker 1: 51:14

If he wanted this relationship, he would do these things. But I think a lot of men don't even know what the things to do are, and so they throw like a bandaid at the problem and hope it will stick. And it doesn't stick, you know, or they, you know they, or they just give up and and then they try again with another person, and then the same thing happens. And then there's the next person, and so I felt, like the way that you really summed up repair it's a process and it takes real effort, right?

Speaker 1: 51:48

To show your partner that you care, that you give a shit about the relationship.

Speaker 2: 51:53

Yeah, you know what I say in the book too, about like there's a difference between wanting something and being capable of doing something Right, and that's where I often see that men you know again, we can talk about society or about all of that Like, don't show weakness, don't ask for directions, just say you got it and then hopefully try to figure it out Is. That also sets men up for failure, and that's part of what I want to name in the book is like it's okay to want something, but recognize that you don't have the skills, for that doesn't mean you can't get the thing. What you need to get is the skills to be capable of getting the thing right. And this is where I think, too women they get fixated on. But he said he wanted to. Well, the reason why he didn't is because he didn't have the skills, and that's not a failing, yeah, but, sir, you can get the skills right.

Speaker 1: 52:47

I want women who are listening, because there's so much pain around the. He said he wanted to and hasn't done anything. And it's so painful because for and that is where women are opting out because that pain of like loving someone so deeply and them saying that they want to be there and that they want you, and then they don't do the things. It's like God that hurts so bad Fuck dating. And you just put God that hurts so bad, fuck dating.

Speaker 1: 53:15

And you just put it beautifully. He wanted to, but he didn't have the skills to do it and he didn't have anywhere to even know where to begin to get the skills to do the thing Right. Yeah, and this book is a skill building book. I mean, you really go over with each one of these things, how to kind of start building those skills. And again, while this is for men, I feel like for myself, I feel like women should read this. And then, if you go, if you meet a guy and you like him, you need to be like hey, I like you a lot, but you're going to have to read this with me, maybe put notes I already have highlighted. I have highlighted things here because I'm like what a great communication tool.

Speaker 2: 54:05

I think that's also where, like having this be a guide that couples can read together can also be a really bonding experience, and that's also where I work with premarital couples together can also be a really bonding experience, and that's also where I work with premarital couples.

Speaker 2: 54:16

And so I say you know, start these conversations early and have them often, because at the end of the day, it's not you know, sir, you need to fix yourself, you know, or anything like that. It's these are the skills that we both need in order to have a strong, healthy relationship. So you know, this is I put it in my little hashtags like this is love in action, right, getting the skills to be capable of having a strong relationship. Like that's not only the most loving thing you could do for your partner, it's the most loving thing you can do for yourself and for your children is give yourself a relationship that allows you to thrive right and allows you to live your best life. Like you know, at the end of the day, if you're going to be in a relationship, you might as well put your all into it, so it can be great. Don't waste your time in a mediocre relationship.

Speaker 1: 55:01

I was instantly like, yes, this is what I want in a partner. I want a partner who gets this. But what I recognized also while reading this is that I have work to do in these areas as well, and that's why I think women should read this as well. Because, first of all, you're going to be like, oh, that is kind, that's my heart, that's what I've been looking for, put into a book. But then also, if you're reading, you're going to be like, oh, I might need to work on that and that myself right, because if you're going to ask for these things from someone else, you better damn well have them. You know, have a strong understanding of them.

Speaker 1: 55:35

I am going to read this again. I, for me. I think it really hit hard and it's something that's going to take a while to like totally soak in. I highly recommend it. But before we go, give my listeners like a man today listening to this going. I'm ready. I want to start dating. I want a good relationship. Can you give like, just what's your top tip for? Hey, let's get you started on the journey tonight.

Speaker 2: 56:06

Start with self awareness, because self awareness builds self confidence. Which is going to be the most important thing when you're in a relationship is having that confidence that if you want something, you can make it happen. And so that's what I would say Start with the self-awareness, build that self-confidence so that you know that will serve you for the rest of your relationship life.

Speaker 1: 56:27

I love it All right Now I want you to tell everybody where they can find you, where they can get this book, all of that kind of information.

Speaker 2: 56:35

Yeah, so I am I. My website is just wwwstronglove. That's my website. And then my Instagram is at ATX therapist because Austin, texas, so ATX therapist. I'm also on TikTok it's ATX underscore therapist where I have maybe a few more videos than I do on Instagram. But yeah, those are the best ways to find me.

Speaker 1: 57:02

So definitely check her out. Definitely check the book out, Crystal. Thank you so much for joining me today. I could sit and talk about this for hours and hours, but we don't have that time. Thank you for being here.

Speaker 2: 57:15

And to my listeners until next time.

Speaker 1: 57:17

I'll see you in the locker room. Cheers.