Female Led Relationships: From Empowerment to Total Domination 4 Levels Revealed

Dr. Kate Balestrieri walks us through Female Led Relationships and what they look like inside and outside of the bedroom. She clearly outlines the 4 levels of Female Led Relationships , reveals how they benefit both men and women and offer couples the opportunity to connect on a deeper level than conventional relationships might allow.

If you and your partner are struggling to create or maintain a deeply connected and mutually satisfying relationship, a Female Led Relationship might be right for you.

In this episode you’ll discover the following:

• Where Female Led Relationships originated
•  The definition of FLR
•  Misconceptions 
• The four levels of FLRs
• Benefits for men
• Benefits for women
• How to get started

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:28

Hi, this is Annette Vinedetti, your hostess for a locker room talk and chocks, the podcast that likes to think of itself as the queer NPR of raunchy women's sex talk. You are about to sit in on the kind of conversations women have on their girls' nights out or behind closed doors, while enjoying delicious drinks and dishing about sex, think, fun, honest and feminist as fuck, and always with a goal of fighting the patriarchy, one orgasm at a time. Welcome to the locker room.

Speaker 3: 1:08

Today's locker room talk and chots topic is what is a female-led relationship? Now, I have gotten a lot of requests for this topic. I assume you all came to me with a question what is a female-led relationship? Because you have happened upon my content on dominating your dude male chastity. As it turns out, I didn't know much of anything about female-led relationships, which are, I think, much more encompassing than the things I've talked about.

Speaker 3: 1:38

But luckily for us, I have an expert here today who is going to walk us through what a female-led relationship is, what it looks like, how you can do it if you want to, what the benefits are, and I've actually had her on my podcast before. We did a episode on sexual assault awareness month and it was fantastic. So I am excited to have Kate Ballastriere back. She is a licensed psychologist-certified sex therapist and founder of Modern Intimacy, a national therapy practice. She is the host of Get Naked with Dr Kate and you can find her on Instagram and TikTok. Kate, will you take some time to just tell my listeners a little bit more about you Of?

Speaker 2: 2:23

course, of course, and thank you so much for having me back on your show. I really love talking with you and I'm so excited to dive into this topic today. But, as you said, I'm Dr Kate Ballastriere, a licensed psychologist, certified sex therapist and the founder of Modern Intimacy. I've been in this work now for almost 20 years, surprisingly which is really kind of throwing me for a loop if I'm being honest but I would say my work. I started in this field doing more forensic work than clinical, and I used to do evaluations and treatment for sexually violent persons who were incarcerated, and since then my career path has stayed along the intersection of mental health and sexuality, but I definitely spend a lot of time now focusing on sexuality, gender and power. So you know, the topic of female-led relationships is a really, really fascinating one that touches on all three of those sort of connecting domains.

Speaker 3: 3:24

Well, I'm excited to find out more about it and to share it with my listeners. So let's just dive right in, because I got tons of questions, cheers. Let's talk about women taking the lead.

Speaker 2: 3:36

Hi, I'm a big fan. Let's dive in.

Speaker 3: 3:39

I am too. I am too. So from my brief research, what I did find is it sounds like female-led relationships did. Actually, the idea was born out of the kink community. That's what one of the articles I read said. You can correct me if that's wrong. So I'm curious about the origins of the female-led relationship.

Speaker 2: 4:05

Yeah, it's interesting. I think that it very well could have originated in the kink community, based on when we decided, sort of collectively, that there was consciousness around what was happening. But my guess is that throughout the course of human history there have been some relationships, some heterosexual relationships, that have maybe taken a more organic lean in this direction, but maybe there wasn't much of a name for it, and certainly within a patriarchal culture. Right, kink? Well, kink in general is about creating room for subversive experiences and anything that's outside of the norm. So it may have consciously been born in the kink community and now lives as something that we understand to be, you know, something that's well, something that's more kinky than not. But a female-led relationship does not have to include any kind of kink or BESM.

Speaker 3: 5:07

Right. So then that brings us to the actual definition of female-led relationship. It is between heterosexual folks only, correct, I mean?

Speaker 2: 5:17

that's the commonly understood definition. There may be some same-sex folks who play around with this language, depending on you know what language feels right for them, and today maybe let's say we'll talk about it within the context of the heterosexual community.

Speaker 3: 5:36

Okay, and what is the definition of it?

Speaker 2: 5:40

Well, a female-led relationship is really where the female partner maintains more power, more authority, more of the decision-making than the male partner, and typically in a heterosexual relationship, we are conditioned to understand that men have more power. So this definitely would represent a shift.

Speaker 3: 6:02

So is this in all areas of the life.

Speaker 2: 6:05

It can be, but it can be limited to specific areas of their relationship. It might be around things like household chores or the money, or it might be just specific to sex. It can be around parenting or things like that. It might be in social events. So there are different degrees of intensity when it comes to female relationships, and kind of at the lower end of intensity the relationship probably looks more egalitarian, but the female partner might have like high-breaking authority in the relationship, for example, and then it sort of gets more and more intense throughout the four different stages.

Speaker 3: 6:50

Right, so we are going to go over there. I understand you said stages, levels, levels, maybe Something like that, but I guess before we jump into that right off the bat, I know when people hear the title of this podcast and jump into it, there are going to be some misconceptions that maybe spring up around that and people's feelings about it. Are there any off the top of your head that you can just be like? Here are the things that absolutely is not, that people might make assumptions about.

Speaker 2: 7:22

It's really hard to answer that question because every set of partners might define this differently, so I would be remiss to say it is this or it isn't that. But one thing that I'll say is that it does not involve exploitation or abuse right, especially when we're looking at a female-led relationship taking place within a kinky context. All of this is consensual and it's mutually agreed upon and beneficial for both partners involved. Now, a lot of times I hear a pretty bifurcated response from men. Some men will say things like well, that sounds amazing. I'd love to let my partner lead and take a back seat and have her sort of be the default person for decisions and whatnot.

Speaker 2: 8:16

And then there are other men who get really, really angry and really upset at this idea and will say things like well, any man who wants that must be emasculated. But PS, you can't actually emasculate someone. That's not a thing. You cannot remove someone's masculinity from them. But I think there's a lot of confusion around what this looks like, and part of why there is and why it can be a very polarizing subject is because we do so intrinsically over-couple power and gender unconsciously in our culture, sometimes consciously, but most of the time unconsciously and that plays a big role in our identity. So if something is being presented to us that questions our sense of safety in our own identity or our own role in our relationship, we might work really hard to discredit it as being healthy for other people.

Speaker 3: 9:12

Right, well, let's dive into the different levels of a female-led relationship, and then I will want us to address the benefits for each person. But maybe giving sort of people a view of what this looks like first would be helpful.

Speaker 2: 9:30

Sure. So I would say the different levels. There are typically like four levels of control. I know I said stages before, but it's not a stage model necessarily, in that it may not be, you know, graduating from one stage to another, but the first level is low control and essentially I mean this, as I said earlier, sort of looks like a lot of shared values, a lot of shared decision-making power and authority. But the female partner might be the person that both partners default to around some areas in the relationship. I think we might see this as being something that is more progressive, but both partners are a part of the decision-making process, even if she takes the lead sometimes, and that could look like having deal-breaker authority, or it could look like being the person to come up with the options about what's going to happen or what the couple can entertain together. So it's, you know, for the most part it looks like a pretty equal relationship.

Speaker 3: 10:35

Is this something that people, a couple, consciously decides on, like they're like, hey, I want to have a female-led relationship, or is it more organic? It's both right.

Speaker 2: 10:47

Every couple that participates in this gets there in their own journey. So for many folks it's completely unintentional and unconscious and it just sort of follows their rhythm organically. But for other people it is more conscious and intentional, especially if this is a kink that's being explored by partners. You know in that instance they would be a lot more explicit around what's interesting and exciting and what they both need from that dynamic and they would set agreements around it and renegotiate from time to time.

Speaker 3: 11:18

What is our second stage or level?

Speaker 2: 11:22

Yeah, so moderate control, and in this sort of moderate control level there's a little bit more intensity in the kind of power that the female partner holds. So here she most likely will have the final say in most of the decisions that are made. She may take into consideration her partner's feedback, but there definitely is more of a power dynamic here. This does not have to be kinky play, but it can be, and so the power plays might be a lot more intentional. If they are exploring kink, it might look more like the male partner being in service of or or worshiping her and giving her all the power, and she may not really enjoy punishing so much, but she really indulge in feeling like she is sort of on the pedestal, if you will, in terms of who has the control, who has the power and who's being adored in that process.

Speaker 3: 12:31

Okay, and then how would that look outside of a kinky? Could you give me an example in just day-to-day life how that might look?

Speaker 2: 12:39

Yeah, well, it might look like a male partner being a little bit more passive. We typically think about masculine and feminine as active and passive, so it might look like a female partner who is more active in her energy, more of like a go-getter, more of a no-nonsense kind of person. I like to think about the women in female-led relationships who are in this level of control. They very often are eldest daughters or they have high-powered work environments, so they're used to being in charge of things. They're used to being the person who heads up the group project at school and gets shit done. So she's coming as a powerhouse and he might be like that's awesome for me, I don't have to do anything, she's taking the lead. I love that about her. She's awesome, she's a powerhouse. I respect her so much. It's just really like it's a relief for both of them that they are in those different roles.

Speaker 3: 13:44

Interesting. And then the third level.

Speaker 2: 13:49

Yeah, so the third level is a more defined control. So where the first two can be more organic, this third level of control is definitely more specific. So in these female-led relationships, each partner is coming to that with a little bit more intentionality around how the female partner will exercise her power and authority and how she will not. Both partners are really explicit and they make an agreement here. So this can sometimes be called like a formal control relationship. It doesn't have to be called that, but it is a lot more. I'll call you the word regulated in the sense that it's regulated by both of them and they have a map for what's going to happen and who's going to do what when. So this third level of control is typically where there are more intentional aspects of king play and specifically BDSM. So sometimes that can look like bondage or chastity or orgasm control or humiliation aspects of their sex play. You know, whatever feels powerful for her and creates for him a position of more passivity or devotion.

Speaker 3: 15:17

So does that also feed into the day-to-day life it?

Speaker 2: 15:23

can. Yeah, it can. Again, it's specific, so you know it might come in the form of like she might make all the decisions about money, she might get his money from his job and control everything that happens with it. She may give him an allowance. She may say to him no, you can't go on that vacation, you have to stay home and do this, this or this for me or with me or to me, so it can be really, of course. Again, it's exciting, it's not exploitative. They're both willing and interested and enjoying it, but it can definitely extend into other parts of their relationship.

Speaker 3: 16:07

Okay, and then I'm like what is the fourth level?

Speaker 2: 16:14

So the last level, the fourth level, is definitely the most intense and a lot of people sort of think about this as like a 24-7 lifestyle example of BDSM.

Speaker 2: 16:27

It's very likely that there is an active level of Canc or BDSM that is happening here. So in this example or this level, they might kind of have these more formalized positions in their relationship where he is a pet or a servant or some kind of facilitator of her desires, her pleasure, and she may enjoy more humiliation or pain exchange, but ultimately she has the control over what's happening in their lives 24-7. Now a lot of people when they hear about a 24-7 lifestyle kink, they start getting really nervous about how that can be okay and what about if it doesn't work for somebody anymore. So it's really important to note that even for couples who participate in a 24-7 lifestyle kink, they do have safe words, safe gestures and periodic check-ins so that they can reevaluate does this still work for us or do we need to make adjustments to what's going on? So either partner can tap out and they can say, okay, we're going to put that back on hold and now it's egalitarian again, we're going to figure out our new agreements together, right?

Speaker 3: 17:45

So I was going to ask about safe words, and so in all of the different stages and levels, there are safe words, yes, or gestures, or whatever. Tap out options.

Speaker 2: 17:58

Yeah Right, because this is consensual. Everybody is benefiting from it, no matter what level of control they're participating in. They are benefiting, it's mutually appreciated and if something needs to change, they can always address that with their partner and make the adjustments, and that's what makes it a non-exploitative dynamic.

Speaker 3: 19:06

All right, so can we talk about? Let's just start with the man in this situation, Typically. What are the benefits to him?

Speaker 2: 19:16

Well, I think a lot of men really feel a tremendous amount of pressure in relationship to be the authority, and not every man wants to be the decision maker all the time.

Speaker 2: 19:28

He might feel exhausted about having to be the head of household, especially if he grew up with a lot of responsibilities for taking care of younger siblings or taking care of a parent whose emotional needs were larger than maybe he was ready to navigate or should have had to navigate growing up. So for a lot of men it gives them permission to be more in the receiving role in a relationship and not have to perform to these really high levels of masculinity High is maybe even a dangerous word these really rigid examples of masculinity where they have to be the person who, sort of like, provides, protects and makes decisions. It's subversive, right. They get to be defiant in a way to that expectation and that can feel really really liberating and really great for a lot of men. They often feel really protected in their vulnerability when they're with a partner who really holds space for them to be safely vulnerable. So it allows them to be in touch with a lot of different parts of themselves that otherwise they might not give themselves permission to have access to.

Speaker 3: 20:44

That's an interesting thought that I mean. One of the aspects of toxic masculinity that we talk about a lot is the fact that boys are taught that men aren't emotional and, essentially, are raised to not have access to their feelings. I do not know how many men I have dated in my life who literally couldn't access emotions and it was so damaging to them, damaging to me, to their kids, to the relationship and the ability to have something, to have something really in a connection. If you can't access your feelings, how are you going to have like a fulfilling connection that feels safe and secure? So it would make sense to me that when they get to step away from that sort of archetype that has been created as this is man, that then they can maybe have the space to access their feelings and feel secure and supported and like it's not scary.

Speaker 2: 22:02

I recently saw a clip of Esther Perel talking about masculinity and she says something really astute. She said in a patriarchy, men can be powerful or they can be connected, but they can't be both, and so I think this gives men the ability to stay in a place of connection, because they don't have to contend with the identity conflict that comes with being vulnerable, ie not masculine enough to stay connected.

Speaker 3: 22:37

So in these relationships and we'll get to the benefits for the woman, but do the people in these people's lives know? I mean, is this an sort of open out of the closet kind of relationship, or is it usually more behind closed doors?

Speaker 2: 22:57

Either or or both. I mean it again it really depends on the partners, and that's the beauty of of kink in general right there's no right. There's no one right recipe. So if partners choose to experience this and share this with each other behind closed doors, that's okay. If they have some people in their lives that they share it with, okay, great. If they share it with everyone and they're completely transparent about it to the world, great, good for them. It's not right or wrong, good or bad. It just has to make sense for those partners.

Speaker 3: 23:32

So let's talk about women and what the major benefit to the woman in the relationship is.

Speaker 2: 23:40

Yeah Well, I mean as a shock to no one.

Speaker 2: 23:44

Most women growing up in a patriarchy feel really oppressed in their power sometimes, and especially in heterosexual dating relationships.

Speaker 2: 23:54

A lot of women have had the experience of having to stay small, not being able to really stand in their true power, for fear of the consequences of that right For women.

Speaker 2: 24:07

A lot of the time when they really stand true in their own power and sort of like square up in their authenticity, if you will, they face a lot of big rejections because women are not supposed to embody their full voice or embody their full strength or their full power and authority in this world. So a lot of women who enjoy this space have probably felt a lot of that and they're like, no, I get to be big, I get to be the person in control, I get to be the person who is in charge and makes decisions. And for a lot of women that can feel a lot safer than being in this position of having to capitulate to a man in power. So I think it gives them just such a beautiful access point to a truth inside of themselves that they can step into fully and then, if they're not in a 24 seven dynamic. They can pull back from when it feels right.

Speaker 3: 25:09

So that's interesting as well. I identify with, like I have a you know, a pretty big dominant personality and for me it has felt like a choice. My life is a choice of, interestingly enough, either being able to be kind of that big person, step into my power, or be connected. Like I feel like I can't have like a truly fulfilling intimate relationship when I'm insisting on standing in my power, but it sounds like this kind of relationship actually would give a woman the ability to do that We'll also maintaining a connection with someone who you know now can be open and emotional right and appreciates what she is bringing to the table.

Speaker 2: 26:03

I mean I think there are a lot of pros for women in that sense, right, and just like there are pros for men in these, in these dynamics. And, on the one hand, because of the way we're socialized around gender and power, for a lot of men this, this female lad relationship, is the first place where they can really fully practice the vulnerability of worshiping another human, worshiping a woman, being humiliated, being ashamed, in a safe, contained space. Those are vulnerable feelings that a lot of men are never really permitted to express without fear of, you know, sort of losing their man card quote to, to paraphrase. And so this dynamic, you know, gives men and women a safer place to play around with these dynamics so that they can be in their full power or in their full connection and still stay connected and stay safe, right, like the relationship isn't going to deteriorate if I am big and strong in my power, if I allow myself to be worshiped and served and, to you know, be revered in that way, so it can be a really healing practice for couples.

Speaker 3: 27:15

Yeah, it's interesting. It almost sounds like it is one of the ways I feel, like I hear a lot of dissatisfaction in relationships around security, you know, and it sounds like this is an opportunity to experience that by doing the opposite of what we've been told our roles are as a man and a woman and what our roles are supposed to be in a relationship. What are some of the biggest challenges a couple is going to face?

Speaker 2: 27:52

Just like the benefits are unique to each partner, so are the the consequences or the negative aspects of it. But one of the things that I hear from women a lot is that they get tired. You know, women typically are doing more of the emotional labor in our world, and so sometimes if a female led relationship is is besieged with two partners and she's doing more of the emotional labor and she doesn't have other outlets to receive in other ways, or if they don't take enough breaks for her to be out of that role, it can start to feel like a job right. I hear this from a lot of dominatrices too. It's like they enjoy the power, but it's also a lot of work to like, hold space and curate an experience for someone else, so it can sometimes feel exhausting and she may at some point want to step out of that role and be attended to in ways that don't require her to all to do all the thinking and all the decision making.

Speaker 2: 28:57

For men, it can feel really wonderful to give up all of that power, but after a while, if they're not being honest with themselves or with their partner, they can start to feel disempowered or like they are resentful of what's going on with their partner, especially if she's not making as much time for him as he might want and he is maybe sort of staying in a place of devotion, but also that might keep him a little bit more isolated. So it's all about balance between the two of them, and it's important that partners are checking in with each other regularly to make sure that the balance works for them both, because things change in our lives too, and that can make it difficult to have the same enthusiasm for these roles.

Speaker 3: 30:35

Right, right, what would you say for people who are listening to this right now and they're like I think that's kind of what we're doing, or they've looked into it and they're like I'm interested in embarking on doing this. What are some steps people can take? First, to bring up the conversation with their partner, especially, let's say, if it's a woman who's gonna bring this up to her dude. And then maybe some quick tips on, like a quick start package, if you will, to giving it a shot.

Speaker 2: 31:14

Yeah, well, I would say, if you're curious about this and you don't know enough about it, maybe the first step is to get more education and you can do that on your own before you talk to your partner. Or you can talk to your partner and say, hey, I was listening to this podcast and they talked about something that was so interesting. Have you ever heard about this and are you curious about it? Do you wanna explore this together? Cause it's kind of my interest is peaked right and you can definitely embark on that together, and there are a lot of blogs out there that do talk about female doms or female, which is different but sometimes overlapping with a female-led relationship.

Speaker 2: 31:57

But start to explore, like your ideas about gender and power and what areas do either or both of you wanna flip the script, what would feel interesting to you and take your time to outline some places that you can start. It's okay to start small, maybe giving over one decision, making peace of your relationship, see how it goes and engage in regular check-ins. If this is a kinky dynamic and BDSM is a part of the female-led relationship, it is really important to practice the aftercare and debriefing that can help you both come back to your relationship roles, your human roles, but also just to continue reinforcing safety and the practice of communicating what worked about this and what didn't.

Speaker 3: 32:50

Right, so you don't have to hard launch in and like hand over everything at once. I mean listening to this because I'm really learning about it for the first time here. I'm like I could see how aspects of this would have been really good for me when I'm not currently in a relationship, but in retrospect. What has stood out to me the most, though, kate is. I don't think especially. I'm openly bisexual and date people of all genders, but when I have been in more heteronormative looking relationships, something that I am thinking now has been really harmful is that I think there is an inherent expectation of the role the guy is gonna take and the role I'm going to take, but I have never sat down with a partner and said, hey, how about we talk about who's?

Speaker 3: 33:49

going to lead what you know. I mean, I've talked about it and you know I've had kinky partnerships where we've played with a domination and BDSM, but I never used the same tools in our day to day life. And as we're talking about this and you're listing the pros and cons, I'm like wow, that would have been super helpful in my relationships with men, because assumptions are made.

Speaker 2: 34:20

Totally, totally. I mean that's the thing about living in a heteronormative culture. It's literally conditioned into us since before we're born who we're going to be and how we should act, based on the genitals that we're born with and the constructive gender that as a culture, we've sort of. I don't want to say we've agreed to it, but that's been the script we've been given. So this is a far less conscious dynamic the gender and power for folks who are heterosexual or who are in heterosexual peering or presenting relationships. It does evoke a lot of just biases and unconscious beliefs. So it's a great place to start and like think about how do we take that context of kink that is based in mutuality, it's based in social justice, in many ways right, because it says like everyone's equal here and we all get to make the decisions that feel good for us. Taking that and applying it in this context, I think, is very empowering and very healthy for couples.

Speaker 3: 35:32

Yeah yeah. It gives you the opportunity to have like a relationship structured around how you really want it to be, as opposed to how you've been told it should be, even if that's in conflict with who you innately are as the man or woman in the relationship. So, yeah, fascinating and interesting, and certainly I think just looking into female led relationships and learning about them is a great opportunity for all hetero couples to reconsider what's going on currently in their relationships, especially if they are having a hard time connecting or running the day to day stuff.

Speaker 2: 36:15

So yeah, I mean one thing to really look at is, if you're having a lot of power struggles in your relationship, it's a good opportunity to really get more curious around, like what are we actually trying to control here and what's underneath the struggle here? Is it security, is it safety? And if you're more conscious about okay, I'm going to take control of this part and you take control of that part, and you both are like, yes, that works, you might actually be able to resolve some of those power struggles, with it being a far more explicit agreement.

Speaker 3: 36:49

Fascinating. Thank you so much. This has been enlightening and I think also for myself. It gives me some tools when looking towards the future and, should I have the opportunity to use the tools I can, it is. It's fascinating and some of your answers were really unexpected for me as far as the benefits Super unexpected in certain ways.

Speaker 3: 37:16

So I think that the most surprising one was just talking about men being able to be vulnerable and access emotions, like having that space, especially because the lack of access to emotions that men experience because of our patriarchal sort of construct and what their expectation is has affected me so deeply in relationships that were important to me and it has been such a painful part of relationships I've been in being connected with someone and having them not be able to access like emotions that are vital to the health of a relationship. Like you cannot have a healthy relationship if you can't connect to your emotions for someone and for a relationship in life. Right, Because yet so many men are moving through life in that way and just somehow getting through it and women are kind of over it.

Speaker 2: 38:18

Totally over it. I mean, you're bringing up a really important point, and this is one of the ways that patriarchy harms men in such a big, big way. It's so profoundly conditioned into them that they are not to express any emotions that conflict with the rigid permissions of masculinity, of precarious masculinity, that a lot of men develop what's called normative male alexithymia. I wrote an article about that in psychology today a few years ago. And normative male alexithymia is essentially where men become alexithymic, meaning they cannot necessarily recognize, label and communicate their emotions, because over time they've been so disconnected from them, from their gender socialization, that it's as if that skill never really developed. So it's not that they don't have emotions, they do. They have big ones and they will evidence big disruptions and dysregulations. But they can't cognitively recognize the feelings and distinguish between their emotions and give it a name and communicate it.

Speaker 2: 39:26

So it often erupts in rage. Right, it looks like rage because that's one of the permitted emotions that men are able to express. So their fear, their shame, their sorrow might look like an outburst or a temper tantrum or withdrawal, and it probably is going to be something that he might have a hard time parsing out for himself. So it is really hard and this is one of the ways that men are robbed of being their fullest human potential in a patriarchy, because all of us are hurt by patriarchy. But you're right, women are over it. We're tired. We've been doing all the emotional labor because when you have a partner who can't do it, guess what? You've got to work double time and that's exhausting for both people in different ways.

Speaker 3: 40:14

Yeah Well, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge on this topic. I really enjoyed this conversation and learned a lot from it, and I hope that my listeners are really listening, especially the dudes. Please listen to this, because if you connect with some of what you're hearing, then maybe you have the opportunity to take that to a therapist and say, hey, I think I'm suffering from this, or this is my experience. I want to work on it so I can be in connection with somebody in the future. Can you tell all of my listeners where they can find you, get in touch with you and also consume your podcast?

Speaker 2: 40:59

Of course, thank you so much. The best place to find me if you're looking for a consultation is the website modernintimacycom, as you said before. I'm on Instagram and TikTok at Dr Kate Ballastrari. I'm on YouTube at Modern Intimacy. Then, of course, my podcast Get Naked with Dr Kate can be found on iHeartRadio, apple Podcasts, spotify and pretty much everywhere you get your podcasts.

Speaker 3: 41:27

I will. If you're watching me on YouTube at Annette Benedetti, I will, of course, tag your channel there as well and be sending you guys all of the links so that you can check her out and learn from her. Thank you so much. Hopefully we will talk again soon For my listeners. I will see you in the locker room. Cheers.

Speaker 2: 41:55

Ringlo sana.