The Truth About Legal Brothels: Madam Bella Cummins Tells All

Have you ever wondered what it was really like inside one of Nevada’s legal brothels? Madam Bella Cummins, the longest serving madam in the US, joins me for a revealing conversation about Brothels. We cover everything from the business of running a brothel to the day-to-day lives of brothel workers and why she thinks sensual work should be legalized. Get ready for an eye-opening interview that might just change your mind about the oldest profession in the world.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:07

Do the sex Think fun, honest and feminist as fuck, and always with the goal of fighting the patriarchy. One female orgasm at a time. Welcome to the locker room. Today's locker room and Shots topic is from brothel boss to activist. Madam Bella Cummins talks legalizing sex work, brothel life and more.

Speaker 1: 1:37

Have you ever wondered what it would be like to be the madam of a brothel? I have. I may have had some fantasies here and there, and I have said since I launched this podcast three and a half, almost four years ago, that I support sex workers and sex work as being legalized. Now I only learned about the existence of brothels maybe five, 10, 15 years ago when I stumbled across a show on HBO. I think it was called the Cat House or something like that, and it was run by what I thought at the time was a pretty repulsive man. So I was thrilled when I found out that there is a brothel in Nevada that is run by a lovely woman, a madame, and I believe and she will correct me if I'm wrong she is one of the longest running madams in the US.

Speaker 1: 2:34

My guest today is Madam Bella Cummins. She is the owner of Bella's Hacienda Ranch, a legal brothel in Wells, nevada. She is also the founder of the Onesta Foundation, a nonprofit organization with a mission to support Nevada sex workers and advocate for prostitution legalization throughout the United States. Thank you for joining me. Will you take a moment to introduce yourself to my listeners and tell them just a little bit more about you?

Speaker 2: 3:04

Thanks for having me on, Annette, and I am Madam Bella Cummins and I have been the owner and madam of Bella's Hacienda Ranch for 38 years, which makes me the longest serving madam in the country and still alive, which is great and running a brothel is still a business running a business. However, it's dealing with the one area in the world that is the largest industry on the globe and is the most unregulated, non-taxed industry.

Speaker 1: 3:43

That's ever been. You have a lot to share with us. Today. We're going to learn all about what you do, what life as a madam of a I'm saying madam, I know it's madam, but I like throwing the little spin on it brothel is like. But we're also going to talk about sex work and legalization of sex work and why that's so important. This is an in-depth inside look at something that not many of us necessarily get a chance to truly understand or see. So, listeners, stay for the ride. This is going to be a fun one, it's going to be informative and hopefully we will get you all on board to support legalizing sex work. Let's get ready to talk about brothels and sex work. Cheers, yes, cheers. I want to begin by talking about your ranch and how you became a madam of a brothel.

Speaker 2: 4:40

Well, I actually went to college for something totally different, but I also had a restaurant for a short period of time and it just so happened that it was in the Mount House area of Nevada and that's actually where that cat house with Dennis Hoff was created early 80s. And then I stepped on as Madame Bella in 1987. But I met a man who was a bit older than I was and he had been romanced, if you will, into buying what was then Hacienda as a silent partner. Well, it turned out that after I'm going to say, a few years, that being a silent partner wasn't working out well and so it was step in and take the silent out of it so that it could be run correctly. Well, he needed for me to step up and learn how it worked. In other words, how had the book work?

Speaker 2: 5:47

Look, what did it cost to turn the key in the door and you know where was the money going, type of thing.

Speaker 2: 5:54

So that really wasn't my expertise, but it learned to be my expertise and I realized what needed to happen in order for it to be run as a business, for it to be run as a business and yes, it's sex work, but anytime there's an exchange of money for services. It is still a business, so it should be approached like that. I liken it to being like a hairdressing salon they come in, they have a station or a room, they have business licenses, they have this whole protocol they have to follow in order to be legal, licensed entrepreneurs in this sexual service industry, and so there's a lot to it for them besides making the choice to step into this type of business, and, of course, typically it's for younger women that need to transition and go on and do something else. But as far as me, stepping on to this idea of the brothel industry, I did most everything wrong before I got it right. I did most everything wrong before I got it right, and it has been my platform for growth.

Speaker 1: 7:11

You started working while your husband at the time owned it. Now you run it fully correct.

Speaker 2: 7:27

Yes, well, he was, as I said, a little bit older than I and he, as long as he, was healthy enough. It was, I'm going to say, his to run, because I wanted him to leave the planet with dignity and to figure out how to make it successful, even though I was somewhat of the driving force in having him follow a guideline. So it would be so. But when he finally passed, it was the reins came into my hands and it was mine to do everything incorrect till I got it right.

Speaker 1: 7:59

And how long ago was that?

Speaker 2: 8:01

It was really the 1990s when you know I was was I was there alone instead of slightly in the background or right beside him. You know so and it was. It was difficult at times because he had other ideas than I did and I had other. I had this idea of empowerment and he had this idea of could he just be successful running it? He was put in a position at an age where he couldn't really do what Dennis Hoff did, which was look at it more like a candy store instead of a way to empower women. He did, he did get there and God bless I'm glad he did where he was more of a leader figure.

Speaker 1: 8:51

Could you talk to me a little bit about how your vision of empowerment, a brothel house being empowerment for the sex workers there, the women there how did that look different than what was being done prior? I assume a lot of brothels have been run by men, so I'm curious about what changes you wanted to make in order to make it more empowering.

Speaker 2: 9:19

The transition of this industry has been huge. And because we owed so much money, there was like three mortgages our home was mortgaged. I mean, financially we were not in good shape, and so there was parts of running the business that had to be about money, had to be about attracting the correct women that would help with all the financial obligations. And yet my vision was looking at the era which was pimp and pretty much street type ladies.

Speaker 2: 10:01

And when you look at that and those are the ladies coming in, it's different, because I'm watching this money go from their hands to someone else's hands and in my mind, you know, in my 30s, I'm thinking you might be in your 20s, but there's going to come a day when you're not going to have anything and you've taken the very best years of your life, made this incredible amount of money, and you have none.

Speaker 2: 10:31

And so my whole outlook or vision went to ladies. Ladies get to learn how to be businesswomen on their own, never needing to be attached to someone in order to be successful. The idea is how to take young women and help them take this incredible amount of money that they make and not just run through it, and I mean back then they were giving it to somebody, but now it's like they've got to learn this. I get the purse, I get the shoes, I get this stuff, but it's like it gets to stop when. What's the next vision? What are your dreams and goals? Learning that their gift that they have of being in service to others creates this financial security if they choose.

Speaker 1: 11:29

So you basically are teaching them the business end of life, like right now, how to be an entrepreneur using their skills as a central worker, and then what to do with that money and how to move themselves to whatever they're going to do next.

Speaker 2: 11:47

Yes, whatever's important on their path. You know, and if we, if we're to look at setting a goal, all right, let's say we're going to write it down, in two weeks I'm going to make, we'll just pick $10,000. I would say that's great. What do you plan to exchange for the money? It isn't the sensual sexual services.

Speaker 1: 13:29

It's the very best experience she has to offer a client today, without knowing if there's penetration, without knowing what it is she's really going to exchange. And once they gather that concept, it's as if more happens behind that closed door than just sex. Are people satisfied or really just looking for penis and vagina, pounding sex and done? I mean, that's like a 15 minute deal. Right, most people are looking for more than just sex. When they are hiring a central worker, they're looking for connection, intimacy, sometimes just touch, like something that they can't get in their life.

Speaker 2: 13:59

I absolutely agree with you. There's more communication, there's more laughter.

Speaker 1: 14:04

So you've taught them how to really look at what they're doing as a business and the quality of services that they're giving and what the meaning is attached with that, which I think is hard, because we live in a society that shames women for enjoying sex period, even when they're not receiving money for it.

Speaker 1: 14:25

Right, like, if you look at sex as something outside of just getting pounded by a man to have a baby and you want to have fun with it and play and get maybe a little kinky or spicy or, you know, do some fun stuff, then suddenly you're a whore.

Speaker 1: 14:42

So then you take a woman who's actually using her skills as essential artist to serve a client and it's hard for them to see past, I'm sure, at first the shame of it because they're doing something that's shamed for women in the first place and illegal in most places, and so you're adding some integrity to that in their mind and then showing them how to run it like a business. You brought up haircutting. People come in for haircuts but they end up coming back to the same person and tipping the same person large amount of monies because the hairdresser talks to them and gets to know their personal story and laughs with them and cries with them. I mean, I know so many people who become best friends with their hairdresser because it's really the connection around that physical activity, which is the business part, the cutting the hair that creates the experience right, and so that sounds to me like what you're saying. Is you added that knowledge base and the integrity.

Speaker 2: 15:47

There is so much psychology involved in any successful business adventure and if you don't have some psychology, your goal a person's or a business is going to fail. The cut the psychology of being in service. And when it comes to our real reason to be in these bodies, we're only we're really here for the touch, we aren't here to see how hard we can work. I look at this courtesan situation if they're really that cortegiana onesta, part of the industry as parallel with the geisha.

Speaker 1: 16:37

Can I pause? You Will you explain the terminology Because a lot of my listeners and myself may not be familiar? What is a courtesan? What is the Onesta?

Speaker 2: 16:48

The Onesta Foundation came from basically the 1500s and in Venice the cortegiana onesta was the premier courtesan of courtesans Okay, and in the definition it does mean prostitute, but of nobility and of that upper class, the clergy. And in the 1500s in Venice there were many different tiers of sex workers. But when a woman was able to reach that particular level of in-service, she had access to literacy and to what the women that were with the nobility had none of. They were illiterate, they had needles, they had things like that to do, the sewing and the embroidery and all those things. But when it came to anything except probably the childbearing and sitting in the royal court, they didn't have what these women that actually were sex workers had access to. So I looked at the women that work at, I'm just going to say, bella's Hacienda Ranch. They're educated it isn't all college but they've got gifts that make them the type of woman that others require.

Speaker 1: 18:41

And they can morph into that and do it without it affecting them at the soul level of who they are. That is a skill, especially when we go back to what I was saying earlier about being raised in a society that tells you if you're good at sex, if you enjoy sex, if you enjoy sex with more than one person, if you enjoy sex just for pleasure, something is at core level wrong with you, evil about you.

Speaker 2: 19:02

And so these women are able to like, know who they are at the core and perform their services, enjoy it and not have that internal degradation happen because they know who they are internal degradation happen because they know who they are and I agree with you in that and what I work to share with them, because I, even after all these years, I know that I am still incredibly judged and being, you know, a woman that's really just a really nice person. A woman that's really just a really nice person. I struggled with that until I realized that what other people had to say or thought about me was none of my business, that I was here to walk an incredibly important path and failure was never in my vocabulary. It just meant that I needed to make a small course correction. And you know, it's an interesting thing. Even now I understand that there are people that would really like for my business to close. I'm going to say cancel clear.

Speaker 2: 20:13

However, hacienda, you know, in one building or a newer building or whatever, has been at that location for 75 years. Is there anything in Wells Nevada that's been there with the same name for 75 years? And I'm going to say I don't see it. I don't see it. So the first 1950 to 1970, there were no legislative codes that made it legal where they had this legal license. That happened in 70, 71.

Speaker 2: 20:56

So by the time I came along in 87, I was still pretty new. And so now I'm at this place where, 38 years later, and they're still looking at me like I'm what high crime I don't know I just look at him and go what are you thinking? I bring a tremendous amount of revenue to the house by the location, being there, by having a great reputation, by people like you that give me a chance to speak, and these clients don't just come to Bella's and say, well, we're just going to spend our money here. That isn't how it happens. They go to restaurants, they get fuel, they stay in hotels, they may go to the grocery store, so there's all this other money that goes into the town.

Speaker 2: 21:40

So, do you really want me gone?

Speaker 2: 21:43

Right, it would probably be a really bad idea, because things dried up like the aridness of a desert during COVID. There was nothing happening. And when I went to the city council and I said, how about if I opened as an escort? And they allowed it, and guess what happened? Things started to flourish in town. My my, but I don't need anyone to give me a standing ovation. I just knew that it would help everybody.

Speaker 2: 22:38

What's the difference between an escort and what you were doing before? And Nevada COVID went away. They never really officially said oh, you can open back up. Everybody else was. So by being an escort from September of 2020 through July of 2021, I had people coming through the door. They didn't care if they watched a movie and ate popcorn or had a beer at the bar. They could talk, they could be together. It didn't have to be about sex penetration, all those things. That's where I learned that it was more sensual than sexual and it worked. So I was open about seven months after we were closed down and then I was finally open as a brothel, like in July of 2021. And and of course, that's when sexual activity could begin. But all of those other houses were closed. From what was it? I believe it was March, until March 2020 till July of 2021.

Speaker 1: 23:49

That's a long time to be closed. So what you're saying is it actually hurt the whole local economy by closing? Because so many people I've driven through those areas I mean there's just not a lot necessarily going on. So it makes sense that having the brothel there creates a destination that then feeds into the rest of the local economy. What I want to ask you now is and I think what a lot of people want to know is I'm just curious about what a day in the brothel looks like. What does a day as a madam running a brothel look like looks like? What does a day as a madam running a brothel look like?

Speaker 2: 24:26

Well, first of all, bella's is. It has room for about 14 ladies. We're classified as a medium-sized house and really there's only one medium-sized house. Otherwise they're very small and in more quiet locations as far as being able to attract clients, or there's the really big ones, and the really big ones are, uh, have policies that are locked down, where you go in and you don't get out till the end of your contract, type of thing, or you're with a runner, or you know so, and I'm going to say you can pay for everything to be provided, whether it's food or laundry or cleaning a room or whatever.

Speaker 2: 25:10

And at Bella's the ladies command they live, they live right there, or let's, we'll pick two weeks, some stay longer. So when they're there, there is, there is a contract that that they sign that says this is a rooming house. You know it's $30 a day for your room and you know how long are you going to stay, because in the original NRS statutes we were called rooming houses. So it's just that little piece of paper that says, yep, you're at a rooming house and here's your station, here's your room, this is what you're going to put your business license in and all of that. So when let's just say when, when I come into the brothel, I'm looking to make sure everyone has all their documents, that everyone is, i'm'm going to say prepared, prepared for the day. And if the doorbell rings, we are a line-up house and what that means is the ladies would assemble in the parlor and they would go out in a line, introduce themselves one at a time, and then the hostess, who would be sitting somewhere near the client, would say you know, please choose a lady. You can talk to as many as you would like to find your energetic match, and but you know, start with one. And so he'll choose a lady and she'll give him a tour, if he's never been there before, so he sees what's available in the house. And then, of course, they get to sit down and talk about prices and services. What's he looking for, what's he willing to spend on himself?

Speaker 2: 28:01

The other part of my duties is making sure that everything is operational in the house, is making sure that everything is operational in the house, whether it's mechanical or whatever. It is that I provide for that rent, which is all of the utilities, and obviously that's what makes it similar to a hairdressing salon. There's insurance, there's utilities, there's insurance, there's all those things that you have to have Licensing, all of that. And then I am also available for any of them that needs part of my time, part of my mentorship, because they haven't lived as long as I have, so I know what it's like to be their age, but they have no idea what it's like and what the wisdom that I have when they're ready to ask or need part of that. They still have to make their own growth, but I might, and usually, have the information that they're looking for in order to be more successful, in order to be an even better courtesan.

Speaker 1: 29:17

What is the age range of the women that come there and work there?

Speaker 2: 29:23

Well, we have an age starting point of 21. And the 20s are, of course, a popular time to step into the industry. 30s 30s are like the easiest because they already went through the where's the money and so they're really, really ready to listen and don't go. Okay, I've got it and even like the later 20s are like that. But in the very beginning, when they're 20 to 24, I mean, it's just a ridiculous amount of money that falls into their hands and it's. You know, there's times when I go. You know you could put some of that in the safe, you could put some of that in a CD, you could put something else, but you know they get to. They get to sow a few wild oats as well. I just work to have them work to rein it in as soon as they're able so that they never have a time when they look in their wallet and the moths fly out.

Speaker 1: 30:31

Do you have women in their 40s? Do you have women in their 50s? Just out of curiosity, 40s typically 40 to 44 maybe.

Speaker 2: 30:42

But a person has to have taken care of themselves. You can't do the heavy drinking and the smoking and the drugs and the stuff I mean. The body falls apart. Our skin does things unimaginable when we fail to take care of it.

Speaker 1: 31:03

How many in one day? How many clients do you usually see? How many men, women come through the door looking for a woman.

Speaker 2: 31:13

It could be 15 or 20 on a quieter day and it could be 25 to 40 on a busier day or more. But you know, it's like and I always look at that and multiply it times a week and then I think about well, how did that help them? And then how did that help the town? And here's the other part of empowerment that I really want to make sure I talk about, because it's a, it's a big thing for me.

Speaker 2: 31:46

All right, many, many businesses that that have things backwards think that it's about the money, all right. And and maybe other brothels are like this, where you know if you don't make enough money for the house, well then you aren't going to be invited back, all right. Which means it isn't about helping the women become empowered and become better at what they are choosing to do. So my philosophy is I get to help them and in return, they have something to share, and in return they have something to share. But it depends on my ability to help them and for them to hear me as they're making this personal growth that has to happen, and as they become better in-service courtesans, the more their money goes up. So they are first and they get to be first, instead of how much money can you bring out of someone.

Speaker 1: 32:57

Now, what's the longest amount of time a woman can stay there and work?

Speaker 2: 33:03

I do have ladies that go home a couple of times a year. It depends on how a woman is wired. Some of them it costs more energy for them as they're working to become this professional in-service provider, and others it comes more naturally. And I liken that to books I've read, like on mastery, where it wasn't the person that it came the most natural to, that stuck with it and became the cortegiana onesta. It was someone that it wasn't natural to them. They had to really work to step into, I'm going to say, an energy where they could do what they wanted to do and find that excellence within them. That wasn't just somehow this God gift, they're it. It just didn't come natural but they wanted it, they wanted to be in service. So they didn't quit and they didn't mean they looked like Barbie, it didn't mean any of those things, but it was a passion and we have to have that and we have to have the follow through or we are we're never successful.

Speaker 1: 34:37

So people can basically stay and live there as long as they want to go home, but then come back and it's up to them. And some it sounds like some women are there for quite a long period of time. Are there some women that are?

Speaker 2: 34:50

there for years. Yes, but typically it's the younger ones. It'll be two months, three months home a month. The majority are two to three weeks on, a week to two weeks off. That's the majority.

Speaker 1: 35:08

And you were saying they had to have licenses and stuff like that. What is required in order to work at a brothel?

Speaker 2: 35:16

To work at Bellas Hacienda Ranch and our licensing comes from the city of Wells. You have to have a picture ID that's valid and a social security card. You have to be able to provide it, okay. And the state requires a state business license. That's good for a year. It's $200. And it's actually a really good thing because it made what they do a legal business. But that, right there, I have never yet seen a state that granted something a business license and then took it away because they want the money. And that's okay. That's okay, costs money to run a government, so they have that.

Speaker 2: 36:06

And then the city requires fingerprinting. So that's an FBI check. So you don't want to have warrants and outstanding things you know that you should have taken care of. And then, once you have the fingerprints, the city of Wells issues a little yellow work card and that work card is good for a year and that is the figure. Printing and the work card right now are $75 and 25 cents. And then the medical requirements are blood once a month and culture every week that you're there Are condoms required.

Speaker 1: 36:47

What are the safety protocols that are put in place?

Speaker 2: 36:50

Condoms are mandatory. I think the one thing that young women aren't taught and they get to be is that anytime a condom is in use and they should be you have to have lubricant. So please, any of you that are young and out there, don't expect to lubricate that thing yourself. Just put it on there, and that way you'll find that intercourse is actually really fun and a blessing instead of the awkwardness of this doesn't feel very good.

Speaker 1: 37:28

So the women are tested. Do the clients that come in have to have any sort of like STI, like what's the on their end? What's the protocol?

Speaker 2: 37:37

There's always that visual inspection, you know, making sure there aren't visual things or any sort of discharges of any kind. And the ladies are very educated in what they're looking for. And from the very beginning of my career, the individuals that frequent brothels and the ladies that work as courtesans they're clean, they want to stay clean. This is why one of the reasons why they're doing it legally instead of out there Disease is always on the rise out there outside of the house. You know the brothel and you know people take chances and they'll come up with some kind of STI and it isn't worth it. There are just things out there. Stis out there you have for the rest of your life and I just feel at this time in history, unless someone really wants to play Russian roulette, utilize the technology that's out there.

Speaker 1: 38:53

So I want to move on to your nonprofit and the goal of it and why you think legalizing sex work is so important, and also the language around it. I'd love to have that discussion with you.

Speaker 2: 39:06

I've been, as I said, in this industry for 38 years. You know, I was already in my 30s by the time I came into what I call Bella's Hacienda Ranch, and so you know that question of oh, did you ever work? There is like a moot point. Whatever I did, I did way before 1971. And so I wasn't meant to be a woman that went from being a courtesan to working on the other side of the bar or having the name of madam given to me, and yet I'm just an employee and all these men own the brothel or whatever it is that. That wasn't supposed to be my journey. So when, when dennis hoth bought the bunny ranch and somehow and maybe it was through Larry Flint, but he got sort of this dark energy about it being an orgy and these people that were attracted to him, it made him look like he was our representative and he was not. Like he was our representative and he was not, he was actually one of those guys, just like on that show, that said, oh you know, as long as they don't say no, I'm going to go to bed with them. And that wasn't what the industry was about. It wasn't about owners dabbling with anyone they wanted to. It wasn't. This is a career for these ladies. It got to be where he was.

Speaker 2: 40:51

His behavior was so out of alignment with all the rest of us and we're just ducking, keeping our heads down that there were women that began to speak out, that it was as if they had been taken advantage of, and at the same time there was a lawsuit that came up wanting to close the brothels in that same county Lyon County, and then Nye County, which is down there by Pahrump, and it was like, well, that can't happen.

Speaker 2: 41:27

So the Onesta moved into supporting, I'm going to say, the survival of the industry, that no one could come along and suddenly say that we were attached to slavery or illegal prostitution or trafficking or any of those things in any way. It's virtually impossible for anyone to be trafficked in a brothel. There's too many criterias that we've already talked about, so it has to be by choice for these women. So the Onesta, it didn't do what I thought it would do initially and maybe it will sometime in the future, but the idea of it crossing state lines and giving clients a destination women, a destination clients that learn about Bellas that are in all 50 states I'm one location, if not that I need more locations, but if each state had certain rural areas or designated areas in a city, then it would be something that would would help with public safety what is?

Speaker 1: 42:49

you refer to? The onesta. That's the non-profit right, correct and correct. And what does the onesta do? You said it came into. Can you explain? So the onesta is a non-profit and what does it do, exactly?

Speaker 2: 43:07

It was designed to help keep these rural brothels in business, and even in Lyon County, it went so far as a vote to the people Did they want them open or did they want them closed? Back in something like 18, 2018. And the people voted that they wanted them open. They didn't want them to go away.

Speaker 2: 43:31

Since the conception of the Onesta Foundation, it was designed to help women understand more about if they wanted to step into this profession. What was it like? It couldn't be about the money. The money happens. They they have to have some kind of a calling, or or they're going to go away. It isn't going to be the industry for them.

Speaker 2: 43:56

So there's there's many, there's many things that I wanted the onesta to be helpful about, and then, eventually, I wanted it to be something that was like a reference point for people that wanted to know more about how it works, why it works, why having it in your town would be a great thing. It doesn't mean everybody's going to go there, but in today's world, there's so many individuals that don't want a permanent relationship, or they they have no desire to get married again and split all their things again, right, or they have a partner but the partner doesn't want it anymore, or they, but they don't want a divorce, but they want to be able to live their life safely. So there's there's all these different reasons why individuals visit a brothel.

Speaker 1: 45:01

Yeah, let me tell you, when dating men I have so many times referred them to sex workers I've been like you need to not be on dating sites. You need to be finding a sex worker because you don't want a relationship. You're just looking for someone to take care of your sexual needs and using women who are looking for relationships for that is really not ethical. But if you find and pay a sex worker, she's there to serve you, to like, give you the connection and intimacy you need. And the lines are clear. You're not taking something from someone and misleading them. And that's where I think you know sex workers do such a great service for people who need touch and intimacy but aren't, you know, aren't willing to give the person doing it to them what that other person needs. But so I would love to ask you your stances and the Onesta's stance is legalizing sex work will help with things like lowering sex trafficking, correct?

Speaker 2: 46:07

I believe it will help. You know, I mean the United States within the borders of the United States. So that's like Americans. It's like 95% of the trafficking is to Americans.

Speaker 1: 46:23

There's a problem Right, and so how do you feel that legalizing prostitution and sex work will help with the issues we have with trafficking?

Speaker 2: 46:35

Well, first of all, people have desires. They're going to get them satisfied one way or another. And because there are so many, I'm going to say people that could even fall into that category of the very wealthy, the privileged, they make it look like it's okay, and so it starts to drop down a tier, and then another tier and finally it gets into regular people, where they just get into that circle. Well, at the very upper crust of there's no, there's no consequence. You know, look at Jeffrey Epstein. You know, I mean there's no. Well, I was so and so wet, nothing happened to him. And then, you know, all these other people go and and it it takes. It takes on something that's kind of like a disease, where people start to fascinate about what was going on and and they bring it down into everyday communities and it's a manipulation and it's taking advantage of people and the young people that just disappear when they aren't all dead.

Speaker 1: 47:54

I'm telling you, people do not know how freaking nuts rich people are and how unethical they are and how they will use their money to get their desires met in the most unethical of ways. It's insane, and they can do that. And by regulating sex work so that the people that are doing the sex work are in control of their own lives, making their own money, and don't need to fall prey to or depend on these folks, you're fixing a big part of the problem. You know you can't have Disneyland without a location. Legalization is going to provide safety for the sex workers, but it also provides safety for the people seeking out sex workers because they will be able to go to a place where it's all regulated right. You're not like doing everything in secret where someone can rip you off, take your money. You know the safety goes both ways.

Speaker 2: 48:57

You have public safety, which is those STIs, stds so that's eliminated, all right. And then there is a financial gain for the community, all right, that's an important part. It's a wonderful thing to be approaching it, that it's a business and how it's going to help government. Don't look at it like it has anything to do with sex. It's a business. And then, and only then, can these people that want to be reelected say it's business, I'm not going to be there, but let's regulate it, let's collect the tax money, let's have public safety at an all new level, and then they'll begin to break through that, that crust of what all of those legislative upper echelon people are doing behind a closed door. That could be about trafficking.

Speaker 1: 51:09

Right, take the money from the taxes that you earn and put it towards fighting trafficking. I don't know, there's an idea. Just a gal with a mic coming up with a brilliant idea, perfect.

Speaker 2: 51:26

So you know, we have to think about. Everything we do with our bodies is in exchange for money. If we're going to thrive in this world, Whether you're a bricklayer or a garbage man or a computer programmer, you're still trading yourself for money. What's the difference? Oh, sex.

Speaker 1: 51:56

Oh, what's the difference? Oh, sex, oh well, and I think something that we need to talk about before we wrap this up is the reality is most sex workers are women and we are, uh, using. You know, I always hear especially when I get comments in my my episodes, and I'm talking about when women want sex men are always like well, women are the one who control when sex happens, women are the one who get to say when. All of that, okay, so maybe that's true, but it's interesting to me, then, that the thing that women supposedly have the most control over is now illegalized to use in exchange for money. It's definitely.

Speaker 1: 52:35

I think the illegalization of sex work is definitely a direct oppression of women. Right, and women being able to say, like when and how sex happens with them, what the exchange is for the sex that they do have. That's my perspective on it. I think it's a way to oppress women when it's a great way for women to, as you say, make a shit ton of money in a relatively short amount of time and then hopefully invest that in their future, the life they want to make for themselves.

Speaker 2: 53:12

There are people women, probably men, maybe trans that are absolutely gifted when it comes to that sensual sexual experience. They're just, they're just it, they got it. And then there's all those other different levels. But you know, because I feel that sex is more therapy than we let on, Absolutely, absolutely, that gets left out of the equation.

Speaker 1: 53:49

It's medicine. Sex is medicine. Pleasure is medicine. It's a medicine for the soul, for the mind of the equation it's medicine. Sex is medicine, Pleasure is medicine. It's a medicine for the soul, for the mind, for the body, 100%. Very last question I know that you're passionate about changing the language that's used to describe. I think you said you'd like it changed and correct me if I'm wrong from prostitute to cortisone, what are some of the language shifts you like to see made around sex work.

Speaker 2: 54:16

When an industry has legal and it's a small, small little legal part and it's in Nevada, there should be a designation that gives these women a different descriptive label, if you will. How can you call illegal sex workers by the same name as legal? There's money here that has to be spent. They have to have clean records. There's all this criteria. They pay taxes, they do all this stuff and you're going to put prostitute on them Makes no sense.

Speaker 2: 54:57

You couldn't tell them apart then. So courtesan means prostitute, but over here, if a pick a woman wanted to work independently, just the whole brothel thing wasn't going to work for her then what's the criteria for that? Oh, state business license, some kind of a work card, valid medical clearances, current always on her person when she went to do whatever it is, and that way, with meeting all those same credentials, she wouldn't be a prostitute, she would be a legal businesswoman. So there's many ways to fix what is like a huge elephant. Who fix what is like a huge elephant? But in the areas that can have regulation and legalization, we should be doing that. We're not going to stop what happens in a back alley. There are things that can't be regulated and legalized, but in the areas where it's possible for the safety of all, then for heaven's sakes, do it. It's good for mankind. Period across the board.

Speaker 1: 56:23

Right, and I think I read somewhere where you had said you would like it referred to as sensual work as opposed to sex work. Is that correct?

Speaker 2: 56:31

Yes, sensual sexual services. There is never a guarantee that there is going to be penetration. Maybe there's something about certain individuals that prevent that from happening. At certain times in their life they still have this great need to be with another, and it happens behind a closed door and we label it sex work. Really, is that really what happened? Probably no, not for everyone.

Speaker 1: 57:04

Well, thank you, this conversation has been very enlightening and I really appreciate you taking the time to. You know, share your story, but to walk listeners through what it what it's like to work at a brothel a legal brothel and and then everything that these women go through and what kind of support and guidance they get when they work at an establishment like yours. But also, hopefully, listeners will get from this some sort of understanding, if they didn't already have it, as to why and how legalization of sex work, sensual work I like the switch there why it should happen and how it can actually improve things for everybody involved. So now I would love for you to tell all of my listeners, viewers, where they can find you, your hacienda and all of the information.

Speaker 2: 58:05

Oh, okay, so the website is bellasus, like United States, and our X is Bellas Hacienda. That's the same B-E-L-L-A-S-H-A-C-I-E-N-D-A, and you know, link up to us. Link up to us, and you know there's a lot of great information on the things that I have done over the past year. So if a person Googles, you know, madam Bella, or Madam Bella Cummins or Bella Cummins, you're going to see a lot of great articles and things that that expand on on some of what we were talking about. Um, there's a.

Speaker 2: 58:56

There's actually, uh, in some of the articles that are current, that about virginity being an epidemic. You know it and it is people 19 or 18 to 20, is it four? Over 50% of the men are still virgins, and I link it to all of this cell phone locking people away. You don't hardly go to college anymore. Everything's online. People are homeschooling more, because you can't really get a decent education in public school. So all these things are changing. How our young people are developing and how their social skills and their ability to interact with one another are incredibly. They aren't developing exactly at a normal rate, and so the number of virgins that we have come through Bella's Hacienda Ranch it's amazing. We probably have five or six in a week. It's about understanding that some people require services such as legal brothels. Yes, well, thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:00:22

So that's a fun little fact right there All the dudes in Idaho losing their virginity at a brothel. Like it makes sense, that's a sexually repressed area.

Speaker 2: 1:00:33

Willie, thank you for having me. This has been fun.

Speaker 1: 1:00:37

Fun conversation and I so appreciate you being here with me. Well, listeners, I feel like you learned a lot. This is definitely a highlight of the conversations I've had over the past three and a half years. I've really enjoyed it. So thank you for joining me and, listeners, until next time, I'll see you in the locker room. Cheers, cheers, cheers. Ring loop.